Ethical Egoism

[whiteypoker]

We are all ethical egoist. By this I mean that the only reason you do an actoin is because it best suits your desires or gives you personal gain.

Does...cough..anybody disagree?

[BWS-1]

I can't say I disagree, but I can tell you I likely misunderstand what you say.

So ... no matter who we are, what our beliefs are, what we think is ''right'' or ''wrong'' ... when it all comes down to being ourselves, it means it's in the purpose of ''gaining'' something to ourself OR what we believe is good? Say, a soldier that would dedicate his life for what he thinks is a right cause and would be ready to go die on the front line without any second thoughts, that would STILL be egoist of him to do so?

I'm asking 'cause, forgive my ignorance or possible misconception of things, I always thought being egoistic meant not caring about others, and have your personnal needs as higher priorities then the ones of other people. And that even in times of which one could offer assistance to other people in need without ending up ''losing'' anything, one wouldn't offer assistance because he'd tell himself that he wouldn't ''gain'' anything from it.

[Therin]

Maybe the soldier was ready to die in battle for the sake of glory, in which case, he is an egoist.

On the other hand, chances are a man who is willing to dedicate his life to a cause is doing it for the sake of retribution, or absolution, or any number of reasons the desire for which is a direct result of something that happened to him earlier in his life. For example, Frank Castle, aka The Punisher, while he is a hero, is also an egoist, because he isn't murdering criminals for the sake of anyone but himself. By the same token, it is thought that the metaphorical "good samaritan" performs his or her good deeds, not for the sake of being good in and of itself, but because these good deed will garner them something in the future; debt, admiration, compensation w/ interest, and so on down the list.

To put it simply, it's not as simple as just not caring about anyone but yourself. You care about others, or about a cause, because you percieve these things to have a direct effect upon yourself.

[Silver Adept]

Well, if you extend that idea out far enough that even if the only thing we get out of it is good feelings, we still do it for ourselves because we'll feel good, then we're probably all egoists, even the altruists who do it simply because they feel good doing it.

That's a rather pessimistic view of humanity. I don't think that people do all the good that they do after calculating things down to the last good feeling. Some people do calculate things like cost versus effectiveness and such, but then there are the times where we simply do something good for someone else because we feel like it. I'd say that's not egoism.

[whiteypoker]

Altruism, like superman, is dead, not to mention they didn't exist in the first place.

[Therin]

[Graillik Tur]

Forget arguing this point, it's a circle. Things just go around and around. There is nothing to base anything off of in the model, it's just a continuous change. No values set, just what is right in the moment. And again we get back into right and wrong and whether it does exist. Look for my new Ebook coming out soon, cause I have to do it.

Salut.

[Tobias]

[shadokastur]

I'd say it's like an internal chain of command that dictates how we act/react. Like what do we hold to be most important? Family? Then the needs of family come first (obviously to a certain degree, decided subjectively). etc... This theory might begin to explain the dynamics of the Fight or Flight reaction. Maybe in it's basics.

[whiteypoker]

Ethical egoism needs no justification just as you need no justification for why DNA is shaped like a double helix. It just is; a natural law if you will. I'm not debating whether or not ethical egoism exists. I'm stating it as a natural law. Shadokastur is on the right track by saying its in the basics. Its in human nature. One believes what is ethical that which is ethical for himself. Even ethical tollerance is believeing what is ethical for yourself because you value tolerance.

The set of values is personal, though right now, if you're an American, they are also based on our laws. Ethics in their entireties are based on what's right for the moment in the sense that most ethical schools of thought allow for some flexibilty. They all have universalities, though they allow flexibilty for the situation.

morons...sorry I have to keep up my reputation for railroading