(For Men Only) Are you stuck in the friend zone?¿?

[Faye]

I'm with tobs, go at it alone. You dont need anyone else since apparetly you have all the "tools and Information" you need. Personally I think you're coming off as a dick and dont think its very becoming of you. But most would call me a dick for calling you out on it, so I guess we're even. Good luck on your so called "game". One more piece of advice whether you want to take it or not. You need to learn to think outside the box.

And graillik, what makes me the alpha dog while still being a "nice guy" is the fact that I've made the consious choice not play by everyone elses rules. You are all under the assumption that everyone plays the game the same way or that the game is the same for everyone. I have my own game with my own rules, and I'm damn good at it.

[Terin]

Like I said before, if I come off as defensive, I'm sorry, that's not my intention. If I come off as offensive, that's unintentional too. Faye, I don't think of you as being a dick, even for calling me one, hehe. It's sad to think that humankind's social patterns can be decoded, and that there are certain cues that every woman picks up on.

GT, I understand what you're saying 100%, and it makes sense, I guess I just don't consider the assholes you described assholes. *shrugs*

Tobs, We'll see man, and totally I look forward to hanging out with ya!

Faye, my goal on posting here, first of all, wasn't to find someone to help me with my confidence because I was afraid to go it alone, this post wasn't asking for advice at all. If you read the title of the post, I'm calling out to all men who are tired of being stuck in the friend zone. I'm looking to help guys who are sick of it grow, and I think they can help me grow too. There's nothing wrong with that, to me it's like having the instruction manual to a videogame, and you have a friend who has it too but doesn't have the manual and doesn't understand the controls, and you invite him over so you guys can both learn the game together. That was my goal, that's why I posted this. I really didn't expect to get flammed, because I figured that guys who were tired of finishing last to respond, I was expecting guys who needed help, and more importantly, who had open minds, to respond. Since no one thus far has responded, and this has turned into a flammed post, I'm going to stop posting here. So if anyone who actually wants help reads this, please PM me about it, because I'm not going to read/post here anymore, it's only causing dissarray. I'd actually appreciate it if a mod could lock it after the people who have posted reply if they wish. I wasn't looking for a debate. I was trying to help.

Jill, GT, Faye, and Tobs, I appreciate your guys' input, even though it got heated. We all have our pride, ideas, beliefs and theories.
-T

[kei]

Brother!!!!!... another one in the friend zone, yeah I'm there, always have been, hopefully won't always be.

[reaper]

Its not a matter of being an ass hole or a nice guy like Grallik said its all about how you present yourself. You can still be the nice guy and work "game" with the best assholes.

One of the best ways I have found to do this is to bust thier balls a little so to speak. You don't have to act like or be an ass hole to tease a girl, joke around and such. Its a pretty normal part of social interaction that peaks a womans interest.

I used to get stuck in the friend zone, just kinda worked my way out of it.

[Graillik Tur]

A woman has only two catagories of men. Screw yes, and Screw no. The "asshole" in the equation is the "screw yes" guy. Why? Because he displays traits that the "nice guy" or "screw no" believes are contradictory to what the woman actually needs, which is love and affection. This is both true and false to certain degrees. Good: the woman is getting attention she believes to be worth something. Bad: this attention will undoubtedly fall short of her ideals and goals as the "asshole" will continue to persue more women until he finds his match, if one exists, or will die cold and alone yet happy still in the idea that he had so many relationships, however meaningless they may have been to the woman.

Again I say it is not about being and "asshole" or a "nice guy". It IS about being assured in yourself and that you have something to offer. You have something that no "asshole" has, a genuine interest in this other person. BUT!!! most women don't want that straight out the gate. They just want to have some fun, be loose and care-free. Able to show you all facets of themselves, which comes with time and trust. And that's the kicker, a woman will grow to love you, she just won't fall head over heels for you, or she may, very rarely.

Best thing for ya? Meet a chick you think is cute, date her. Push the physical earlier than you would. Don't be afraid to flirt, touch her arm, her hair. Don't hold her hand, but rub her feet.

Do NOT under any circumstances in the beginning (insert random period of time that is different for each person) show that you are absolutely interested in her feelings. Feelings are scary for most people. Women are scared of being judged, and you not approving. They don't wanna get into the deep stuff right away. They just wanna go to beach, catch a movie, sit on a blanket and look at stars, and maybe a little roll in the hay on said blanket. Just let it grow slow and everything pans out. But understand that women, despite the feminine revolution, on the whole, are very scared and easy to hurt. It is an unfortunate side effect of the media driven society in which we live. Everyday women are bombarded by pictures and product models that don't even look human, much less like them. The last thing they want is for someone to ask about how they feel. But they do want someone too listen when they are ready to talk.

God they are strange. Anything else I can help with, like the male side of this equation of love let me know.

Late

[kurjohoto the III]

The friend zone is sad and lonely place. I live there and hate it greatly .