I'm a wee bit confused... (church and state)

reaper · I miss you Shar Gender: Joined: 28 Dec 2002

Because the biggest argument comes from the Catholic line of thinking. Freedom of religion is also freedom of no religion. I know it is hard to grasp when you have strong convictions, but allot of people have just as strong convictions on the other side. Abortion should not be made illegal if the basis for it are religiously motivated it’s simple.

But look I have made my point I can do no more to try and persuade you.
Myself I think abortion is wrong in most cases. But America is about freedom. Supposedly at least.

KenseiKurisuchan · Alive and kicking Gender: Joined: 17 Mar 2003

Then use your basis, that it's unconstitutional for the child.

take me home · Rookie Joined: 04 Nov 2004

reaper · I miss you Shar Gender: Joined: 28 Dec 2002

Shino · Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:00 am Post subject:

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Shurikane · Dim Panties As String Joined: 24 Sep 2002

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why separation of church and state is a good thing. Mr. Green

Every religious word must be taken with a grain of salt. I remember once seeing a LJ icon that read:

Katana · Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:45 pm Post subject:

To quote myself in speech I gave in English in 8th grade:

"Did you know that 97 percent of all abortion protesters are men? And do you know that 100 percent of all men will never get pregnant?"

So if you outlaw abortion, what choice does that leave for the 13 year old that got raped in a back alley? Adoption? Well, sure. But do you know what having a baby inside you for 9 months does to a woman? No. Why? Because you've never been in the situation. It happens.

But then on the other hand. I knew this woman once. She got pregnant when she was 18. Dropped out of school, and got married to her baby's father. He got a job, since he dropped out too. The baby was born, no abortion, and was loved very much. She's 15 years old now, and a little bit of a handful, but mostly happy.

And who is the child of those kids? Me. But, I caused a lot of financial and marital problems between my parents. If she had had an abortion, would she be better off? Yeah, probably.

That's very hard for me to say, yano. But a wise man (my grandfather, actually.) Suggested a very good inbetween policy. Now, this would probably be greater on paper than in actuality, but isn't everything? So here we go:

Now, I'm probably never gonna get pregnant due to prefrences, but just because of that we'll use me as an examples, okay babes? Alright.

So lets say that one day, since I'm having sex with men at this highly hypothetical point, I get pregnant. Woops! Bad. I'm only 15. So, I have a choice. Let myself get attached to this thing growing inside of me, so that'll probably lead me to not wanna give it up for adoption...so I make an amazingly painful choice: Abortion.

So I go down to the clinic, take the pill, get the procedure, whatever.

And all is good and well.

Okay, well in this situation, I'm the slut, right? Well, lets say I slip up again and get pregnant again.

So I make the same choice.

But, this is where the plan kicks in. 2nd time, no 3rd chance. Full historectomy (sp?) Forget getting pregnant again, if you want to or not.

You may say that's not really a punishment, but most women (except me, really, which is why I'm a prime hypothetical example) want to be mothers to loving, legitimate children one day. So, makes ya think twice, don't it.

And besides, even when they outlaw abortions, they won't stop them. Girls did it even when it was illegal, with gin and iron filings and knitting needles. Only thing is, this can KILL the mother, too. Two deaths is much worse than one.

So, really, by giving a safe environment to preform these procedures, you're saving lives.

And this all may mean nothing to you, but it's my opinion, and you won't hear it from anyone else. Besides, the constitution DEFINATELY gives me the right to voice my opinion ^_^ Thanks for reading, loves!

God Bless America! *waves flag*

take me home · Rookie Joined: 04 Nov 2004

"So if you outlaw abortion, what choice does that leave for the 13 year old that got raped in a back alley? Adoption? Well, sure. But do you know what having a baby inside you for 9 months does to a woman? No. Why? Because you've never been in the situation. It happens. "
-First, the percentage of people that get abortions because of rape, is very, VERY small. And no, I dont know what its like, none of us said "They should carry it because its not that bad since we pop out babies every few hours or so, no big." But I can tell you that my mom, (3 kids) and my moms sister (4, one of which was from rape) said that no matter which whey they had a baby it was joyous for them to bring life into the world and was no huge problem to wait out the 9 months. Granted, thats not always the case, but I can tell you that my mom has several friends (of whom I have met) that are still suffering from an abortion they had 20 years ago. It leaves a scar, and you still have to take in the part where getting an abortion isnt a safe process. Take into fact the part where you have to think about the babies right to live... oh, pardon, better be politically correct and call it a fetus. Either way, its a living organism that has human traits, so I would classify that as human (please dont go extreme and say "what about monkeys?", monkeys are monkeys).

"If she had had an abortion, would she be better off? Yeah, probably. "
Seeing as earlier you said you were 15, you probably havent had a baby either, so you cant really use that excuse unless you have had a baby. Being a girl doesnt mean you know all the trials and pains of childbirth. But I am sorry if you think her life would have been better if she aborted you. Again, most women that get abortions (this is true, Im not making it up) have to go to counseling afterwards because they killed their child. An experience probably you nor I have had to experience.

" So, I have a choice. Let myself get attached to this thing growing inside of me, so that'll probably lead me to not wanna give it up for adoption...so I make an amazingly painful choice: Abortion. "
-Somehow, I think you would find it more painful to kill your future child then give it away and let it live a happy life, heck maybe one day become famous, the president, or maybe some womens rights supporter. Or kill it while its helpless and cant do anything significant. I know it depends on your own outlook, but I think it would be more painful to kill it then give it to someone who will care for it and give it a good life.

"So I go down to the clinic, take the pill, get the procedure, whatever.

And all is good and well. "
-Again, doubtful if you get an abortion your life will be peaches and cream, sorry. :/

"Only thing is, this can KILL the mother, too. Two deaths is much worse than one. "
No offense, but if someone decides to get an abortion when its illegal and goes through the procedure and dies themselves, its no ones fault but theirs. Do I care they die? Yes, absolutely, but its just like soldiers went to D-Day knowing they were most likely going to die, but they go anyways, so does a woman go to an illegal abortion clinic knowing she can very well die. No ones fault but hers. Another thing about the abortion clinics, they act all like they care for you and your situation, but is most likely just corrupt and is out for your money. :/

"And this all may mean nothing to you, but it's my opinion, and you won't hear it from anyone else. Besides, the constitution DEFINATELY gives me the right to voice my opinion"
-It means quite alot to me, it gives me both sides of the world, yes its your opinion, and I highly doubt I will change it, almost 100% positive, just out to give you the other side of things (which I'm sure youve heard already anyways). The one question I have for you though is what about the childs right to its own life and future pursuit of happiness etc...?

So... yeah.

BWS-1 · Otaku Lord Gender: Joined: 25 Sep 2002

Aradia · Teh Creator of Cute Gender: Joined: 16 Jul 2004

Ok, since everyone else's putting their 2 cents in, so will I. On the religion part, this may be way off topic, but I think it should be brought up. I live in the buckle of the bible belt. There's just about a church on every corner. My junior year, I started dating Dai. Incase you don't already know, (and Dai, if you have a problem with this being up here, let me know and I'll edit it) Dai is Buddhist. When we started dating and I found this out, I went and got some books on Buddhism from the Library so I could understand some of what he believed. I was in choir class one day reading a book on Buddhism when a classmate sat next to me and asked what I was reading. I showed her the cover as I continued to read and she said and I quote "Why are you reading that? It's not like it's a [i[real[/i] relgion." I just looked at her. What has this world come to when a person of a religion is under the understanding that their religion is the only one that exists, or even is correct???

Next subject...abortion. I am very indecisive on this subject. My mother had an abortion when she was 17. It was not from rape or any of that matter. The father had been her boyfriend for 3 years prior and turned to be her husband for 5 years to come. My grandmother forced her to have this abortion because "what would the neighbors think?" She didnt want this abortion. She had the name picked out and everything. At that time, she lived in Michigan. When she first confessed to Grandma, they trucked her to New York for an evaluation. Mom protested beyond belief and thought she had talked her parents into letting her keep him. At 7.5 months, they trucked her back to NY and got the abortion. If she would have had him, he would be 10 years older than me. Now, yes, on that day of the year, Mom always wakes up with a feeling of dread. That was app 30 years ago. On the other hand, she did finish school, and I have my sister. Had she had Steven (that's what she named him), I almost guarantee she wouldn't have had Kristi. Her relationship with Kristi's dad was already getting worse. So, no, I have not gotten pregnant, I have not had an abortion, but I am probably as close to this subject as many. I still have my beliefs about it. I totally agree with the whole rape victim standpoint. It's rediculous to allow it when it's used as a form of birth control. At that point, I agree with Katana about the histerectomy idea. Thank you for listening, as this subject is very troubling for me.