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Graillik Tur
Renaissancetaku
Gender: 
Joined: 09 Jul 2004 |
 Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:07 am Post subject: |
I'll agree with that last post.
Again your saying Wolf that you have an open mind and she has a closed one. Since most people believe themselves to be 'open minded' isn't your direct refusal insulting to her 'open mindedness' as well as you not asking why you should, or what benefits Islam brings...or for mere discussion sake what it is about Islam that makes her believe it is right? |
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It is my firm belief that in this era of mass connectivity, the death of us all will be mass media.
Why do we insist in believing we are masters of our surroundings when we fail so miserably to master ourselves?
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shadokastur
Patience to see and strength to do. That is all.
Gender:
Joined: 26 Jan 2003 |
| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:52 am Post subject: |
It seems to me that the term "open-minded" has here been defined as "the state of being willing to take on the challenge of making another's ideas fit into the structure of one's own ideas" |
_________________
After our battle, I will keep the ash to remember you by. ~Phayne~
It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built. ~Darth Traya~ |
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Graillik Tur
Renaissancetaku
Gender:
Joined: 09 Jul 2004 |
| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:03 am Post subject: |
Well isn't being 'open minded' believing that all things are possible and all things should exist? |
_________________
It is my firm belief that in this era of mass connectivity, the death of us all will be mass media.
Why do we insist in believing we are masters of our surroundings when we fail so miserably to master ourselves?
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Wins 2 - Losses 10
Level 3 |
EXP: 283
HP: 1950
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STR: 750
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ACC: 750
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Shurikane
Dim Panties As String
Joined: 24 Sep 2002 |
| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:45 am Post subject: |
Open minded means you'll at least take a look and consider the belief propositions that come to you. I've had people on the Internet with some systems that would make my father do jumping jacks in his grave, but I nevertheless took a look at the system and tried to understood what brought it on and how it operates. I have one particular contact who says she's met the Devil several times and has fought against his minions on many occasions. Well, who am I to know better? So whenever she comes to me for advice, I think with the assumption that what she says is 100% true. For one part, it's her problem, and she's looking for a solution that she could really put into action. For another part, it would be rude for me to say "I don't believe in that so I can't answer your question."
As far as the ultimatum idea goes (join my religion or else you're going to hell), yes, it's not much of a forcing-upon... But, well, I don't want to say "blackmail" but that's the closest English word I can find for what I'm trying to say. Either way, I could simply snap back and go "Well, my own religion, called [Zwyx], says anyone who doesn't believe in it goes straight to hell too. What do we do now?" In the end, it degenerates into a "My god is stronger than yours" type of problem and we're not going further.
In an ideal world, my wife would say "I believe in something, you believe in something. Maybe we're both correct, maybe one of us is wrong, or maybe both of us are wrong. Either way, it doesn't matter. We know the philosophy of each of our belief system. I respect your beliefs, you respect mine, I love you, so let's get married and screw like rabbits."  |
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RivaOni
Full English!
Age: 41
Gender:
Joined: 24 Sep 2002 |
| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:54 pm Post subject: |
following a specific religion isn't a matter of choice, nor is it forced upon you (well apart from in some countries, but im speaking from being in england and how wide a range of religions there are here). the way id be attracted to a specific religion is if i at down and listened to each inidvidual ones beliefs, and imay or may not be attracted to a specific one due to what i believe myself, but i think if someone feels they have to FORCE you to do something, then its not worthwhile doing it (in terms of them saying "do this or else") |
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shadokastur
Patience to see and strength to do. That is all.
Gender:
Joined: 26 Jan 2003 |
| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject: |
| Graillik Tur wrote: |
Well isn't being 'open minded' believing that all things are possible and all things should exist? |
Once again, I don't think you understood what I said. What I typed was:
'It seems to me that the term "open-minded" has here been defined as "the state of being willing to take on the challenge of making another's ideas fit into the structure of one's own ideas"'
Ultimately this means that unless someone's ideas somehow mesh with one's own they will be discarded or depreciated. So, I would say that the above is not an accurate definition of being "open minded". I'd say that a more accurate definition would be "the willingness to understand the structure, methodology and practical application of another's belief system" |
_________________
After our battle, I will keep the ash to remember you by. ~Phayne~
It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built. ~Darth Traya~
Last edited by shadokastur on Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:29 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Graillik Tur
Renaissancetaku
Gender:
Joined: 09 Jul 2004 |
| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 6:33 pm Post subject: |
Then youyr stating that you must impliment an idea into your own to be open minded? That seems egotistical to believe that your own beliefs are somehow higher on the totem pole and are the ones 'augmented' and not the add on. Either way your definition of being openminded seems limited in that you must somehow be 'right' or 'in control' first before you can even look at the idea. |
_________________
It is my firm belief that in this era of mass connectivity, the death of us all will be mass media.
Why do we insist in believing we are masters of our surroundings when we fail so miserably to master ourselves?
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Wins 2 - Losses 10
Level 3 |
EXP: 283
HP: 1950
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STR: 750
END: 600
ACC: 750
AGI: 600
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Ultrawolf
Mr. Roarke
Gender:
Joined: 04 Jul 2003 |
| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 6:59 pm Post subject: |
| Graillik Tur wrote: | | Then youyr stating that you must impliment an idea into your own to be open minded? That seems egotistical to believe that your own beliefs are somehow higher on the totem pole and are the ones 'augmented' and not the add on. Either way your definition of being openminded seems limited in that you must somehow be 'right' or 'in control' first before you can even look at the idea. |
That's a stretch. I don't put anyone's beliefs above anything else. Thats what makes me open minded in that I don't believe any religion is more important than another. I'm willing to look at everything and go "oh that's cool" as opposed to "No that's wrong that religion is Wrong". I don't claim to be a member of any religion. That's my choice. I don't have to be "right" or "in control" to look at an idea. Im willing to learn about an idea from a religion.
The issue at hand was what to do if my GF told me to "join or go to hell and im leaving you". Not about what the meaning of being Open minded is. I didn't think such a simple concept could be taken so many ways. My stance on it is that I don't claim anything to be better than anything so I don't choose any religion over any other. Thats what I mean by open minded. My mind is open enough not to be attached to anything. Any other stretch is your words and not mine. |
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shadokastur
Patience to see and strength to do. That is all.
Gender:
Joined: 26 Jan 2003 |
| Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:41 am Post subject: |
OK. Let's try again. I went over what I posted and found the things that I thought were my fault in this misunderstanding and re-worded and put them in bold below. If needed please refer back to the unchanged posts. Please, Graillik, take the time to read what I wrote and respond to the WHOLE post, not just the first thing that sets you off.
NOTE: The definitions below HAVE NOT been re-worded.
I quoted/wrote:
| Graillik Tur wrote: | | Well isn't being 'open minded' believing that all things are possible and all things should exist? |
Once again, I don't think you understood what I said. What I typed was:
'It seems to me that the term "open-minded" HAS HERE been defined as "the state of being willing to take on the challenge of making another's ideas fit into the structure of one's own ideas"'
Ultimately THE ABOVE DEFINITION means that unless someone's ideas somehow mesh with one's own they will be discarded or depreciated. So, I would say that the above IS NOT an accurate definition of being "open minded". I'd say that a more accurate definition would be "the willingness to understand the structure, methodology and practical application of another's belief system"
So, with that said (and hopefully clarified). I don't see how your last post:
| Graillik Tur wrote: | | Then youyr stating that you must impliment an idea into your own to be open minded? That seems egotistical to believe that your own beliefs are somehow higher on the totem pole and are the ones 'augmented' and not the add on. Either way your definition of being openminded seems limited in that you must somehow be 'right' or 'in control' first before you can even look at the idea. |
...applies to what I said/typed. |
_________________
After our battle, I will keep the ash to remember you by. ~Phayne~
It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built. ~Darth Traya~ |
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Wins 13 - Losses 19
Level 6 |
EXP: 2469
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STR: 550
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Graillik Tur
Renaissancetaku
Gender:
Joined: 09 Jul 2004 |
| Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:08 am Post subject: |
Correct....I will completely agree with the last definition. That was what I was trying to get around to...see if that was what you meant.
Ultrawolf...I know this started with a 'religious' ideal but I want you to understand that it is applicable to anything. How a house should be run, governments set up, law applied, marriage, taxes, school system...the list doesn't end because everyone has a different idea on how things should be done.
So lets spin it in another direction. If your teacher tells you to stand in the corner for no reason at all...do you do it? |
_________________
It is my firm belief that in this era of mass connectivity, the death of us all will be mass media.
Why do we insist in believing we are masters of our surroundings when we fail so miserably to master ourselves?
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Wins 2 - Losses 10
Level 3 |
EXP: 283
HP: 1950
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STR: 750
END: 600
ACC: 750
AGI: 600
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Shotbow (Shotgun)
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