Mary Sue Litmus Test

K-chan · Murr! Gender: Joined: 23 Nov 2004

I also think that on questions about your personal likes an the characters its just gauging the distance you put between yourself and the character. I don't really like that you get penalized for having personal attatchments to your characters even though excessive amounts of it is a symptom of being a Mary Sue. This is a large gray area of this test I don't really agree with because being really close to your characters is something that a lot of writers and rp'ers like. Its not a bad thing, because when you really have something invested often that extra energy can give life to an otherwise flat character. Its a style thing really.

Personally I like to have a lot of distance between myself and my characters, and have my own private interests so far removed that they are truly themselves. They have their own lives, likes, and beliefs, and often my voice and common interests will muck the characterization up if it slips in.

Kugyou · Katori Shintaro! Age: 44 Gender: Joined: 26 Sep 2005

I have my own issues with the test - first off, I'll admit that I'm against using "Mary Sue" to apply to characters in original fiction. The term came from fan fiction characters that were overly idealized author-inserts, especially those that were created to play out fantasies of romantic involvement with canon characters (or fantasies of defeating canon villains).

Like the Wikipedia article on Mary Sues mentions, even Aragorn could be considered a Mary Sue under the circumstances of the litmus test. Heroic characters in original fiction seem like they will always fall into the category of a Mary Sue. For example, just about every main character of the webcomic Gene Catlow could be at best a Borderline Sue - Sight of the Soul, communication with technological devices, induction into secret societies, etc.

Second, I think that a lot of the questions get a little stilted towards what the test's author considers to be "overly trendy" behavior (like the "1 point per word" section on goth poetry). Also, it doesn't seem like there's a real weight given to personality flaws that aren't romanticized, or are used as actual hurdles for a character to overcome.

Lastly, an "Anti-Sue" really doesn't seem to be something to strive for, as your character is often at best bland, or at worst, a literal "Anti-Sue", with unbalanced amount of time spent distancing your character from Mary-Sue-dom.

And just to balance out my post, I'll post the score for my character Penance, as based on his appearance in Gene Catlow. I'm having to tweak some values, because there's extra circumstances.

+2 Unusual first name (Penance)
+1 Name describes personality
+3 Highly attractive (bodybuilder physique)
+1 Canon character attracted to him
+3 Unusual eyes (blank white eyes, wears full-cornea contacts to cover)
+2 Dresses in a way I find attractive (self-inflicted extra point for multiple attractive styles)
+1 Above average intelligence (without exceptional education)
+1 Estranged from birth tribe
+3 Forcibly banished from tribe
+1 Angsty childhood
+2 Considered skill a curse (no longer does so, so 1 point reduction)
+3 Unusually accomplished (District Attorney though from an outside tribe, *and* uneducated in law)
+2 Physical flaw that does not detract from appearance (snowleopard with white fur and no spots)
+2 Best at a skill (100% correct verdict rate for murder trials)
+2 Sole practitioner of a form of magic (minus half a point for the magic being another form of an existing magic in the universe, minus another half point for not really being the only practitioner, just the only one that shows up in the story)
+2 For Magic/Sorcery (specialized form of necromancy)
+1 Character excels at a desired field (law)
+1 Well-known (subtracting a point for being in a high-profile job)
+2 "Reforming" a villainous character (staring down and shutting up the culprit of an anti-human hate crime, didn't really change him, but was the first step towards his reform)
+3 Falls in reciprocated love with a favored canon character
+1 Would enjoy being friends with the character

39 Points. So he's considered a Mary Sue who'll have to be reworked to be a "believable" character, according to the litmus test.

I think the tiers are still tilted too much towards the fan fiction characters, whereas the hero of an original story shouldn't be considered a problem until the "Uber-Sue" level at least. Of course, my test is ever skewed more strangely, because about half of the things I wound up with points for weren't written by me, but by the comic's author as part of the cameo.

Cheshire · Hippy Kitty Gender: Joined: 31 Jan 2005

Shandriz · Your Death Shall be Swift Gender: Joined: 28 Sep 2003

The problem, Kugyou, that you're not taking into consideration, is that this is just a guideline. It's meant to be a warning sign to make people look over their characters again, not a bible.

And there -are- some characters in popular fictions that can be considered Mary Sue. Just because the stories go over well doesn't mean the author's perfect. xD. And sometimes Mary Sue characters are appropriate to an author's goal-- if they want the reader to feel that they -are- that character, they're going to make the character much more like the common man, only better, so they'll -want- to be that character. It makes sense.

As I've been saying-- the guide is to be taken with a grain of salt. There are a lot of things it doesn't take into account...and couldn't, really. I mean- if you created a -true- guide to cover -all- situations for Mary Sue characters, nobody would take it because it'd be as long as the eharmony.com profile quiz (which I had to take over the course of -months- just for entertainment value, as I kept all but falling asleep after about six or seven pages, I kid you not).

I didn't mean that this is the Be-all End-all of Mary Sue-dom. It's just a really neat way to sort of guage your character. It makes you think about it, that's all, and gives you a hand looking at the specific categories you'll probably want to look at.

Silver Adept · Otaku Lord Age: 42 Gender: Joined: 20 May 2003

Or in figuring out which parts you have to handle delicately if you disagree with what they consider to be the Sue categories.

Daijaga · Chosen of Luck Gender: Joined: 17 Dec 2003

This is a resource for pcs, who are inferior in all ways.

Incidentlaly, I compared some of my past villians to the test's criteria and most of them hit very low marks on the test. Of course the test is designed for balance out fiction characters, not staple npc villians.

Shandriz · Your Death Shall be Swift Gender: Joined: 28 Sep 2003

It's not really designed for villains at all--otherwise I'm sure my sister's Covaris would've been quite a different story. ^_- This is for happy sparkly heroes.

Ryukku · Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:07 pm Post subject:

It's kinda anti-anime which is why I am reluctant to put Ryukku through it.
A charecter alot of my friends like from my writing is named Lipika and I ran her through it and got a 33 placeing her in this catigory:

KiSin · Reality's Exiled Gender: Joined: 12 Oct 2004

Wow...I couldn't do this for anything. Basically because I never really put a lot of thought into a character. All I do is make up basics and then go with the story from there, i.e. I react to other peoples questions and other actions on whim. Everything is made up on the spot.