For Rev ... President Bush...whatcha think?

[Doot]

Everyone has some great points. And being a child of military I can honestly say that everyone in the service needs this country's support. You may not agree with the reasons they are over there but they are laying their lives on the line to continue bringing us what freedoms with which we have grown comfortable. Does anyone ever think, while they are off at the movies, while they are sharing dinners with their friends, shopping at malls, doing anything recreational just how privilaged and frankly, oblivious, we are to the true hardships that are going on to allow us these freedoms. These freedoms that allow us to NOT have to think of all the blood that is being shed so we can live in this comfort. Men and women are fighting for thier pride in our country. The least any of us can do is return that pride from within or else it is more like passionate warriors fighting to guard an apple that is rotting from the inside. I am in 100% support of troops. And I will take pride in my country as I believe, that even in what is speculated as it's darkest times politically, love of country can help sustain our rights and privilages.

As for government? I've never been much a fan of the democratic process but I understand the need for it or else you'd have nutjobs like Saddam ruling with only his interest in mind. Remember, it only takes someone with the desire to become such a monster to be able to strike fear in their countrymen and dictate over them as if he were god.

This war may not be 100% merited. I can say this is not 100% about oil as we have enough oil outside of our OPEC nations who supply it to us (as a sort of "union" of oil companies) to last through 3 lifetimes so there would be no need to defend due to maintaining any "contract". I wouldn't even be able to agree that oil is driving this at all. An interest may be there but I think it wouldn't be more than 1% reasoning of why our troops are over there. And even though we have not turned up Osama, we certainly have a good start in taking one of the most dispicable "leaders" out of power. Saddam needed to be plucked from supremacy. No question about it. And yes, we haven't found any WMD's (which I'm still a bit pissed about - since that was the main premise they used to disguise our initial attack) and reports have even been presented that the President was given faulty information from the CIA (resulting in the resignation of the director, George Tenet). Regardless, there were known offenders/attackers of the United States - and other countries as well - that were still in power and of which needed to be extricated.

Bush is no genious. And I dare say he is not solely responsible for every decision made in times like these. He does not have access to a key-button switchboard to yay or nay every little decision our government makes. He is one man with a stack of advisory panels that in such situations must rely on THEIR dependability and honesty to make decisions on what he believes is right for our country. I'm not a Bush supporter, but I am a President supporter. Probably doesn't make sense. I may not agree with every decision passed but when you look at the alternatives across the sphere, ours look a bit more appealing.

I don't agree with allowing your religion to dictate your government either. THAT is the premise this entire country has been founded on. (Well that and truly dicking over the Native Americans but that's an entirely different rant altogether). The reason, whether you like it or not, the pilgrims made their way to this land was for Religious Freedom. Our complete foundation reflects that, so to say I must accept your religion, or his religion, or her religion, or I should leave is narrow-sighted and not ANYTHING we fight for in this country. That view is as just as the early Puritan views that if you aren't like me, well then, you must go. I wonder how many burnings at the stake we'd have to endure to live in the society that dictates our religion? I agree that there is some sorts of moralistic degradation and that yes, we could afford to be more modest in a lot of scenarios but if everyone lived the same straight and narrow life we'd be overthrown as a great nation so easily. We are easily PC'ing (politically correcting) this nation into the crapper but it does take those fringe citizens to shake it up and not take the bull all the cookie-cutters would lay on their backs to take.

This is everyone's nation. Everyone's. The pious, the righteous, the liars, the cheaters, the modest, the saintly, the meek, the strong. THAT is what everyone has to get used to. NOT religious dictation. NOT moral dictation. NOT any dictation. I realize we need laws (do not kill, etc) that keep us in line but I don't need the government telling me that same sex marriage is unconstitutional and frankly I'm ecstatic that they couldn't pass that amendment. Allow them their unions, hell now I don't even care if they can call it marriage or not, just recognize it in it's simplest form as love and move on. If you don't want your children subjected to it then there are avenues that you can take to create a sheltered lifestyle for them. It's about parenting, which seems to be a dirty word nowadays as a large group of people refuse to accept that responsibility even though they were responsible enough to not get abortions. And speaking of which, I agree abortions should not be used as birth control but there are situations that merit such things. Regardless of whether or not their percentage is great enough to sway the general public it is still an option that needs to be available to victims of rape. Unfortuantely this is a case of all or none.

As for other countries not being in support of the US? Well you are always going to have nations that are going to hate other nations for being arrogant and headstrong. That is natural. I would also advise that everyone in the US, at some point in their lives, take a trip outside of our nations protective walls and understand that the globe does not center/revolve around our fine, shiny US bottoms. There are just as many nations out there who would be just fine without us as those who are better off with our help. We must not forget our humble beginnings either. And above all, we must not forget that we are all children of this nation.

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." ~Ghandi

[Excel Zero]

[KenseiKurisuchan]

[Doot]

(Posted before Kensei added his second paragraph)

Actually, I was aware of it.

Unfortunately, the initial reports, sending the decision to attack in action, were reports of Uranium purchases. Sarin gas doesn't quite cover the WMD profile enough to even deter the government from having to backpeddle and points fingers to where the communication breakdown was first initialized.

There was no doubt we were going to war, but to use the thinly veiled excuse such as unprecendented and highly innaccurate reports of such proceedings does make many voters feel duped by their government. Yes, we needed to get over there an remove certain people from power and to hunt down the leader of the attacks on our soil but no, we did not need a false reason to do so.

[GAAZ]

Actually we did need false reasons to do so in order to con the UN into joining our cause..Unfortunately the UN doesn't like to be conned they only like Conning us with their Geneva Convention laws (Of which in every war America is the only country to ACTUALLY follow those laws) and cries of, "Saddams an ok guy..Why us Germans and French have been selling weapons to him for oil for years."

[Doot]

That's sounds like a "Well they did it first" mentality. Either way, I'm agreeing we need to be over there. Just find it a bit misleading of how it was done and lying/fibbing to the UN doesn't make it anymore right.

[GAAZ]

Meh..What goes around comes around.

[Kai]

OMG wow Rev you said it all so... all I can say is wow. Should bush get re-elected Moore (whome I personally know) and I will have to start something. Something bad. Something like the American Revolution but in modern times. Something people will look back on 50 years from now and will be reading in text books.

[Minosheep]

So you'd rather have Kerry?

I dunno all about that stuff, but from what I have heard, Kerry wants to be really sucky.

[Excel Zero]