The death of MMORPGs in general.

[Shurikane]

MMORPG: Korean game with Japanese servers populated by Philipinos before they move to a slower International server meant for Americans but already populated with Brazilians.

I thought (and hoped) the MMORPG genre would burst like a bubble and disappear in a day's span soon as word got out that it was a haven of ill-conceived games. But it didn't. Even now, companies keep trying to milk the genre for all its worth (more or less one peso,) or if you prefer this metaphor, pressing the lemon 'till it's out of juice.

But nobody learned. MMORPGs are a grindfest where the advertisement of discovering a beautiful new world full of textured polygons is quickly taken over by the reality that you've just entered yet another generic medieval online game, and where getting your character to level two is bound to take several hours. The games are designed solely for sucking as much of the gamer's time as possible and keep him playing for as long as possible to keep shelling out this monthly fee. Or, they price items so that they are nigh-impossible to buy with in-game currency to coax you into paying real money to get them.

Innovation in the genre is nonexistant. It's always the same dogshit online medieval game with that could be taken as a twist that falls short. You thus get: Medieval Game With Robots, Medieval Game With Dragons, Medieval Game With Lightsabers, Medieval Game With Cars, Medieval Game in The 19th Century, and Medieval Game With Aircrafts. The exact same mindless point-and-click gameplay with just another skin.

It wouldn't be that bad if it weren't for the fish that kept flocking to them. Just last week, I heard from an otherwise highly intelligent 20 year old student: "I'm going to play RF Online because there are robots in it. And robots are pretty damn cool." Online, it's worse. The community operates exactly against what it was for in the first place. You want trading, you don't got it. You want friends, you don't make 'em. You want serious players, you get idiots. You want to play by yourself, you get overrun by PKers.

I don't understand why no one tries to make anything special with their MMORPG. Why nobody tries to assess the real gripes of the genre such as grinding. Grinding alone is a staple of MMORPGs, everyone hates it, and somehow they keep playing (pardon?!)

The gameplay itself lacks sophistication. Most of the games are now based on spells and class skills, but without account of other factors. Doing the old fireball is nice enough, but what about the archer who fires at a target at point-blank range and misses? What about this time in that car MMO where I cornered a firetruck by the broad side into the end of an alley, spun my wheels to keep him glued to the wall, fired away with two different weapons at the same time and was not able to land a single hit in three minutes? It's not logical. We've far past the "OK, do your roll!" formula for every single thing in the game that we used to play on tabletops. Companies keep trying to advertise a game of roleplaying but the players play it as an adventure game with monsters mindlessly wandering around every so often.

In fact, the "RPG" part is completely irrelevent nowadays. You're no longer playing a character with his own story and all - at least don't tell me you're acting like your character in game, 'cause I'll flat out never believe it even if you were telling the truth. You're playing some guy you tried to get to look like you or your favorite action hero by choosing between four face types and four hair colors ranging from "light brown" to "almost light brown". Then, you go off into the field executing monsters and your only words when you get back will be "WTB 2hs PST." Hardly in-character.

Let's talk about executing monsters, which, we'll all agree, are actually the same monster but with a different shade every now and then. This is how you get to kill a "Wolf", then an "Angry Wolf", then a "Savage Wolf", then a "Dire Wolf", and finally meet the "Wolf Boss" who's simply a bigger "Dire Wolf" with a few more health points. And coicidentially, the most "notorious" monsters are the ones that look the most stupid. So you receive your mission that tells you the Djanyxyzuk have been causing trouble with the millitia recently, and lo and behold, you find the monsters your chief was talking about having a little picnic just two steps outside the gates of your town, and when you start the slaughter, the others don't even raise a little finger to help their kin. Oh, let's not forget bringing a feather from each of them back as proof (even though I myself would've killed only one Djanyxyzuk and then plucked a shitload of feathers to make my job a whole lot easier.) Oh yes, and while killing one of them, he happened to drop a completely unrelated Plate Mail Armor +2 of The Snake. What luck.

So, why keep playing? Why get on a timesink with a community not worth a cent, that's bound to get you shoving your hands into your wallet every now and then? Can anybody tell me a serious answer to that with a straight face?

[Robb]

I get what your saying, and one of the core parts of what you said that appeals to me is this:


MMORPG's shouldnt be about grinding levels.

So, what do we replace it with? Have it player skill based? where you have more control over your character, so if u see your arrow hit someone, it actually hits them?

I don't know if an mmog exists that does that, but I'd like to have a look at it if it does

[Exottica]

I wish I was more awake to respond... My personal take on MMO's is that I could care less about roleplaying. It's cheesey to me usually, although I am trying to warm up to the idea of it, in general. The RPG aspect doesn't exist to me and that doesn't bother me one bit. I prefer hard-to-beat bosses that take coordinated attacks. I enjoy participating in creating and perfecting strategies, especially when they require a large group of people performing in sync. I engage in raids and end-game play. I like phat lewts, but I like being able to hone the skills necessary to beat a final boss mob and what not... After being one of my guild's main tanks for 5+ years (EQ/WoW), you develop a sense of pride about it. I play to perfect my class. Now, weaknesses would be things like... Hmm, examples: You've seen one warrior, you've seen them all. Same applies to boss fights. That's something that game designers have to work on... Have they failed? I don't know.

As for grinding... I enjoyed it in EverQuest, actually. Chilling with the same people for a few hours, building up networks, xp, loots... Yes, it was a waste of time in a way and I know my money was going down the drain, but, I still chat with a lot of those people and that was a few years ago, so that's saying something, I think.

I don't care if it's shallow, but I'm totally of the mindset of MMO = "Pimp my Warrior." (Or whatever class, character, etc...) BUT, provided that I know my class well enough to back up my blingbling.

Now, I personally have retired from World of Warcraft because of the monotonous vibe that I was beginning to feel, but I've ranted about that in other threads, so I won't bother to do it here. Let's chock it up to crappy instance-game design and poor loot table design.

Exo should sleep more and type less.

[Robb]

[Silver Adept]

Grinding is a major problem, because the designers set each stage of the game orld as if it were an arcade game, where "you must be X strong to continue on, or you'll get slaughtered". That can be alleviated a little bit with party-running, but even then, it's often hard to find a party to go with. I'm hoping that the .hack MMO has mroe ephasis on the RPG part and less on the level-grinding. What you need in a good RPG is a world that interacts with its characters and characters that interact with the world - where finding the really interesting stuff meand not that you're level 99 and can whip things, but that you followed some clues and pieced together some visions into learning mroe about the way the world operates. I like the .hack concept because people can play it as a level-grind or as a PK, but the people who really get enjoyment out of the game and find the most interesting things are the ones taht investigate and actually roleplay with each other.

That's what I think is missing in the MMO world - a world that rewards interaction rather than statistics. As bad as it sounds, making mob killing extremely boring in an MMO might actually make a better MMO.

[Zzyxx]

I agree with silver. I've started to feel kinda bored with WoW myself. While i don't mind grinding and killing quite so much, it gets dull fast without a group. I really enjoy the social aspect of MMO's. I am never more entertained than when i can find such a rarity as a good group and get a few levels under my belt as well as some nice goodies. But i think WoW could have much better game if it was more RP based or the world changed based on character actions. To that end. I think the pre-rape SWG was the best MMO out there, bar none.

[Hoth]

A game that I rather enjoyed playing even though it had the graphically challenged genious of a 2year old was Asherons Call. Not the Asherons Call 2 level bassed peice of jazz.

But the one where everything you do you get exp for and you spend that exp towards anything on your character. So you have total control over 99% of your character.

The next MMO. Well for now it will be D&D online. After beta testing it. I really like the gameplay and the fact you have to team up. Given the fact also that you have to play your class. No more DPS Rogues running around acting like fighters. Theres more of the "okay man.. go scout around and disable that dang trap" then the hoards come and your fighters take front.. your archers a lil behind and your mage (who dies when he gets hit) burninates the mess out of them.

I agree there is a lot of needed content that is missed in MMO's that just dont get there. Big reason I'm learning Java and building my own.

[Terin]

[Nogrick]

My perfect MMO would be something in which the players have active control over the environment. Other MMO's have "factions" which you are basically told these guys are your enemies, and we're occassionally friendly with these people. But I'd want to be able to sway the decision of my faction. What if we as a whole want to be friendlier to another group?

I think it may be wishful thinking, but I want an MMO where players can be more political, have more of the strategy elements that people like about RTS. You wanna make friends out of your rival, go ahead. If you want to ban mages from your town, you can. Or if one group has more control in your town, mutiny and take control yourself. Here the strong group of players will survive and the weaker ones will be forced to assimilate. I know theres a lot of people out there who want to be the best there is, and I want my MMO to make me work for it.

Also, I want a more active approach. Pointing and clicking just isn't my style. I want to have a fight were I have to keep guessing to beat my opponents, not just cycle through my skills til it's over. I want to be able to block and parry in real time and not wait for stupid checks and rolls. That's why I'd play D&D.

Games like Dynasty Warriors: Empires and Dragon Force got me into thinking this way. I mean, what if someone controlled all those characters? I think that would be fun, but I don't think it's gonna win over the popular vote. People just don't want to have to work at their games. They want to relax and play it out. I feel a game like this could add the RP back into these games, but then again you have to have serious players.

Another thing I'd think would be good is skill deterioration. If you don't use your skills, over time you lose them. I think this would lead to more skill specialization in games. That way you don't get left out of a group because A can do everything you can and has spells to boot. I also hate the idea of picking a class. Maybe I want to be a skilled swordsman and use fire magic. I don't want to have to be pinned into being a weaponmaster (can use a variety of weapons) or a warlock (can use a variety of spells). I just want to use a sword and fire magic and nothing else. I don't want to have to be able to use axes and spears if I'm not going to use them. Same thing with magic, if I want fire, why do I have to bother learning ice and earth magic, I'm not gonna use them.

So that's where I stand.

[Kuran]

I think I agree with everyone here. MMORPGs have gotten rather monotonous, and they're all basically the same. And I like Warcraft 3 better than WoW because, while it's actually a real-time strategy game, there's still room enough to make it into whatever you want. I really like Nogrick's idea about specialization though. I would also like to see a MMORPG based on .Hack as well.