Clashing Tides

Graillik Tur · Renaissancetaku Gender: Joined: 09 Jul 2004

18. Always believe in yourself before others. Don't follow someone else's beliefs just to fit in. Never become someone else to accomodate(sp?) somebody else.

Now how does this apply to the feelings and understandings of others. We will take this to the extreme. If someone believes that they are god and must kill you to keep their power and you believe you have a right to life and they are not god, what do you do?

Shurikane · Dim Panties As String Joined: 24 Sep 2002

If I stick strictly to your interpretation, I stop him, for my belief is of higher priority than his.

But, I want to point out the guideline wasn't exactly meant the way you interpret it. What Zane most likely meant was something that I could sum up in this line: "If your girlfriend is islamic, you shouldn't have to convert to islam to please her."

Graillik Tur · Renaissancetaku Gender: Joined: 09 Jul 2004

But what if she says you should convert to Islam for if you don't your going to hell...and she'll leave you?

Ultrawolf · Mr. Roarke Gender: Joined: 04 Jul 2003

Shurikane · Dim Panties As String Joined: 24 Sep 2002

Graillik Tur · Renaissancetaku Gender: Joined: 09 Jul 2004

Alright...how is it that she is closed minded because she doesn't accept your beliefs? She believes what she believes and she believes it to be right. That's not closed minded, that's being firm in a belief. And if she truly believes it, who are you to say she is wrong?

Your right shuri, you don't have the right to force them. But making an altimatum is not forcing, it is giving a strict conciquence for not adhering, much like breaking the law. You may think it is ridiculous to wear a seat belt in a duely because your wrapped in 2 tons of steel, but if you don't want the ticket, you do it anyway, believing it to be true or not.

So...I think we are down again to people believing that their own beliefs are the right ones.

I didn't see anyone try to disuade the woman in question, reach a comprimise, just stick to their guns and let what be. Perhaps we are not all as enlightened as we think. I know I am not.

Ultrawolf · Mr. Roarke Gender: Joined: 04 Jul 2003

Graillik Tur · Renaissancetaku Gender: Joined: 09 Jul 2004

Well not in those words but you did say 'respect that I have an open mind.' That's kinda degrading towards her don't you think? I mean you didn't say it but in essence your saying that you don't believe her, which makes her wrong...see how complicated this is?

Ultrawolf · Mr. Roarke Gender: Joined: 04 Jul 2003

Silver Adept · Otaku Lord Age: 42 Gender: Joined: 20 May 2003

The problem is not a matter of the difference of opinion, it's the threat that's tacked onto it, or so I read.

Differences of opinion and belief can exist in the same space, it's when action starts happening that problems develop. In the first case posed, I try to stop him, because I believe I should live, while he believes I should die. There's no difficulty there. At some point, one of us is victorious in our struggle. It doesn't change the beliefs, only the outcome.

With the conversion question, If you believe that you should convert to Islam, for reasons that are yours, then you convert. Those reasons may be shallow, but they're yours. What you should not be doing, I think Zane is saying, is following or doing things without having reasons of your own to back them up. If you don't consciously decide to do things, you become a sheep or a zombie, because you've subjugated your own decision-making process to someone else's. That's generally a bad thing.

That's the take I get out of it. Take whatever quantity of NaCl you need in regard to it.