Anthony Flew becomes a theist

[Buda]

[KiSin]

Someone make clear to me what each dimension is please. And is there a first dimension?

I came across this website as well. Flatland

[Excel Zero]

in essence they lack names for the dimensions beyond that but here's what we do know

1 - Length
2 - Width
3 - Depth
4 - Time
5- Space-Time, They call it this for lack of better definition. Essentially this dimension is considered the fabric of time as it deals with space. The belief is that you can warp space it self.

Thanks for pulling up the Flatland link. I should have originally credited Michio Kakau for coming up with the story.

As to your question, here how I explain it. If somehow you existed only in the first dimension, then you would look like a straing line of whatever color and length we picked. For example if you are 6 feet tall wearing a red shirt and blue pants you would look like a 6 foot long line that was flesh colored where your face was then red for the shirt and blue for the pants. Though how you would exist I dunno

You'd never have to worry about weight gain!

[KiSin]

What would you study for this stuff?

[Excel Zero]

Kisin: Well if you want to study dimensions and these special cases of physics, you would want books on cosmology, special relativity, and theoretical physics.

A book I recommend is Hyperspace by Michio Kakau

He also wrote a book on special relativity.

The nice part is he brings facts about all the physicists then explains em in better English and then invites you to decide what you believe yourself

Look up articles about Kaluza-Kehin theory, Einstein and General Relativity Theory, Stephen Hawking, Superstring theory, and maybe some articles about the tenth and 26th dimensions.

Good luck....you can PM for more

However in modly fashion I shall steer us back on course as it was I who lead us astray after a while there.

Buda: Way to stick to the infitie theory

I read a book once on a battle between creation and evolution. One of the anti evolution arguments that intrigued me was this

"Evolution and the Big Bang is like a Tornado swooshing through a junkyard and putting together a perfect 747 in working condition minus the fuel of course."

Now at that time in my life I used to believe more in Creation. But what Buda mentioned has made me think about the possibility of things like the 26th dimension existing and other options. The way I feel is that the biggest problem is exactly what Buda said. People rarely look into the future. When you talk about shaking a box and putting a puzzle together. The longer the timeline, the more better the possibility. Glad you brought that up Buda.

Excel

[KiSin]

Hey, thanks Excel. I am always up to learning interesting stuff. I will try to look these up sometime.

[Buda]

i would definatly suggest reading about the string theory, the 10 and 26 demtintion theory, and one of the branches of that the membrane theory. highly intresting reads.

[reaper]

[BWS-1]

Now here are just a few thoughts of mine (I admit having written them in an offencive mood, therfor, bewarned that yes, it might be offencive) :

Perhaps, what is written in the Bible shouldn't be taken word to word. The thing we must all keep in mind is that, in many beliefs (such as Zen, and nearly all religions I know of) The meaning of the words aren't always directly connected to, well, the meaning of the words themselves. For words that are meant to be signs, and images to help us understand, can be defined with a thousand words.

That's what we call metaphors. And let us not forget that the Bible as we know it has been translated, interpreted, and changed in so many ways in the past that attempting to graps the true meaning of its full content would be near impossible.

So many things could have so many different meanings. For exemple (now that's a bit off-topic) Death in your dreams can be a positive sign, for you will change, evolve, become reborn, better, enlightened, other times, it could just mean something bad will happen. Or, more often, just to be carefull and that those thoughts of death are present in your dreams to warn you, either from a reckless behavior, or from something you refuse to admit yourself while awake, that just surffaces back from the subconscious in your dreams.

So perhaps our friend Flew here thought to himself, that in the end, he had no reasons to not believe anymore, or perhaps, no good reason to express his opinion on how he didn't agree with the idea of a god. Like Celsus said:

''Before accepting any belief one ought first to follow reason as a guide, for credulity without enquiry is a sure way to deceive oneself.''

-Terrors of Islam, by Antony Flew, 2nd quote

I think it could have been possible that afterall, Antony was a bit too credule as well in the first place, which lead him to deception. Isn't that ironic that he's the one that added that to his own text? Then again ...

To know that, as we speak in the U.S., families goes to church every sundays in fears of being illtreated by the rest of the townspeople if those would get to have a hint that actually, they aren't believers, I can think that, a guy like Antony Flew, must have had to face with some very negative reactions from those who call themselves ''believers''. My thoughts are that, now at the age of 81, he gave up on his beliefs just so he can have, maybe, a bit of rest in his last days in this world.

How many ''witches'', philosophers, scientists, and renegades have admited or hid their beliefs for either, saying that they made up lies and demanded ''God's'' mercifulness on their souls, or that they truely were possessed, and that they were affected by the devil's influance. I think of all those witches that were violated and totured for thinking differently, and that, in the process of torture, they were admiting they were possessed, not because they couldn't hide the truth anymore, but because they couldn't take the torture anymore, and that admitting it was their only way to make the pain stop, even tho they willingly knew they were lying by admiting they were possessed, but since telling the truth wasn't gonna make the pain stop, and since the only truth they believed in was considered as a lie, what other options did they have? Not many.

The way I see it, it hasn't changed a bit, the ways have just been refined, and concealed from the public eye, and what happened with Mr Flew is just an evidence of that. Foundamentally, it remains the same primitive oppressing conspiracy. For unlike in the ol' days, doing such a thing would not be good to do nowdays beause ... well, obviously it would be tarnishing the religion itself, with all those medias everywhere and all. Back then, they could use fear to oppress people with, and demonstarte it to intimidate non-believers. But now, with all those ''human rights'', if The Church (or any other religious group) would go against those rights, then they wouldn't exist as we speak as an active dominant sect in the world today.

Different ways had to be adopted to keep having a stong power over the people's mentality, and the they sure adapted themselves well. But o don't pay attention to what I say, I make up lies really, o my I don't want to die, such merciful god will only grant me a place in heaven if I believe in him and, if I don't, maybe I'll go to heaven too, if it does exist, but his followers will surely know how to turn my life in a living Hell, and the worst part is, they will think they have the right to do so.

Sad, but don't think I dispite ALL believers ... well, I would if they'd be all as narrow-minded and sadistic as those torturing and opressing bastards from the past ... yet so vain, how could they know they weren't doing something right when they thouht ti was good? poor things ... which makes me realise, I don't dispite those people, I just feel pity for them. I pity them for their brain's malfunction on the level of social acceptance of different individuals and beliefs... maybe it's a human ''bug'' afterall, I wonder if we'll ever be able to ''fix'' that in the futur ahah ''God bless genetic advancement!'' ... that sounds kinda funny for some reason ^^

And o you know how I am, I like to be a conspiracy theorist from time to time. So if what I say seems to not make sence, it's perhaps because it's making too much sence ... err I mean yes yes, it doesn't make sence ... plz don't torture me?

But ya know, I can be wrong, seriously. But anyone has as much chances to proove my words wrong as I'd have chances to proove the bibles words wrong. Supositions, theories, religions, all those things, no matter how long we believed in them, they can't be right if they are said to be the only truth. It's like saying how can it be right to kill? If one believes killing is wrong ALL THE WAY ... then I fear for his life when he'll be down to hunting for his own survival.

:p

[whiteypoker]

Why do you believe that you must follow what your creator dictates? Religion is clearly the best example of this. Freewill, the ability to sin against your creator, is given to you to insure your individuality. I would think as a man of science you'd be more worried about your individuality in terms of mortality. You will not be forgotten by God (under the majority of monotheistic religions). However, unless you assinate somebody real important, discover something astounding, or kill millions of people, history will forget you. You will be nothing buy a statistic of some type and your grave stone will not even keep your identity more than a few hundred years.

I think it is logical to look at the complexity of not only humans but other lower organisms and realize that it may be just as plausible for something to have designed it rather than some explosion, having just the right characteristics, created it.

To reaper: I find it humerous that you have drawn the conclusion that if the universe was created in six days that God only has the power of 1/6th that of which his creation appears to have. Does a college professor who has a Doctorate in philosophy have only 1/14th the philisophical power as his intro to philosophy class has as a whole because he teaches for 14 weeks? Does an engineer who designs cars have 1/350th the power as his creations because it took him a little less than a year? Though the creators in those examples do not have absolute power over the outcome, I see no reason for this to be a necessary part of the equation. It is irrational to believe that because it took God six days to create the universe that he thereby only has one sixth of the power of the universe. The best you could demonstrate is something akin to horsepower and torque. God could create at the rate of one "everything" to six days.