Economy and bunnie

Marysanna · Junior Otaku Joined: 04 Mar 2003

What does your opinion on this matter? Because you decide the elderly, who can no longer be "of use", have become a strain on the young and able bodied, they should be sent off to die for the betterment of the community, that doesn't mean it's going to happen or that the community would actually be better off. Anyone of those community members who had any care for that sick and dying person would,I'm sure, gladly pull extra weight in order to help that other member. I have cared for the sick and dying myself and, despite the emotional drain and all of the difficulty, I don't regret in nor find it a waste of time. In fact, had I to do it over again, I would have tried to do it better.
I know this is a theoretical question, but perhaps a few questions you should ask yourself before answering is 1) How would you want your parents to be treated on their deathbed?; 2) Say you were responsible for a society to change to this sort of system. Wouldn't you want it changed back when it was your turn?
Furthermore, in modern society this question seems obsolete, as we do not become crippled as a community when our neighbors become old or sick. The kind of society this was in practice in was a society in which everyone contributes toward the good of all. Now we contribute to the good of ourselves, and don't even notice when a neighbor falls sick.

So contemplating the purpose of a theoretical question such as this, I come the the conclusion that what you are really answering is whether you can face death, or prefer others to die quietly in the swamp so that you don't have to face your own mortallity.

Graillik Tur · Renaissancetaku Gender: Joined: 09 Jul 2004

I disagree. I would want my parents once on the deathbead to go quickly and painlessly if possible. 2. If that was the society, then I would gladly go when it was my time.

Also...crippled as a community is not necessarily true. If SS was to end right now, and we gave all the money equally over to everyone...every human being in the US would get a 1800 dollar check. If we ended Welfare right now...another system that was supposed to be a short term event...the check would be closer to 4000. The young and the able are still paying for the sick and the elderly to live. Sadly the elderly are finding hard to live still as the price of medication to keep their decaying bodies keeps going up...which again the able and young have to help pay for. The system is messed up. It needs to be changed. It needs to go back to the pre Depression ideals and mentallity. You work, you save, your kids take care of you till, you die.

Oh...and Gov. income tax was also supposed to be a temporary fix for the depression. Read your history books and talk to your grand parents if you got them. Ask them about when taxes began. Ask them about welfare and SS. They are actually quite new.

shadokastur · Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:00 pm Post subject:

Graillik Tur · Renaissancetaku Gender: Joined: 09 Jul 2004

Well....I again disagree. Humans live a life. They do they best they can with what they have. Those that wish to become 'succesful' do so. Those that are content to the 9 to 5 do so. Eventually this all runs out. And I don't believe that my parents would ever beg for their life when they knew the time had come. No man that is comfortable with their morality would beg. You take your shot and you run with it. That is all you got.

Also...removal of pain is rediculous on the basis of one ideal. Without black there is no white. To understand what feels good, you have to understand what feels bad. To understand honesty, truth, morality, love, being human, you must also understand lying, falsehood, debauchery, hate, being inhuman. Im not saying you should be these things, but to best kill the beasts, you must understand what drives them.

Just a thought.

shadokastur · Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:38 am Post subject:

Graillik Tur · Renaissancetaku Gender: Joined: 09 Jul 2004

I might have.

"It's not just curiosity that compels people to learn a trade, it's care in the form of wanting to make ours and other's lives easier or more free of pain and conflict that drives us to improve ourselves through our trades and our relationships with others."

I might agree with things being 'easier' if I didn't believe you must know failure to enjoy success. Also you must know pain in order to empathize.

shadokastur · Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:49 am Post subject:

Well all results are subjective to a degree. Like what you might consider progress I might not. In that sense, and as I meant it above, one tries to make these subjective improvements on the quality of life out of an empathic drive for other's well being as well.

Graillik Tur · Renaissancetaku Gender: Joined: 09 Jul 2004

Actually I believe all things are subjective...it's just the agreements of these subjects that we come to things we deem 'real'.

shadokastur · Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:43 am Post subject:

Graillik Tur · Renaissancetaku Gender: Joined: 09 Jul 2004

Ah...death is not unknowable. Many know death. Many have stared it right in the face. I was in a car wreck once in a creek. When I saw the water wash up over the windshield, I thought I was going to die. I didn't, I really didn't even come close, but I thought I was going to die. I have seen many family mambers die (my family is old). I've had pets die. Everyone knows of death. It's how you will face it when it comes time.

As far as reality goes...yes and no. Since we all view the world differently it's hard to pin point a single 'reality'. Instead we can agree that certain things are 'true' in certain instances. But as a broad idea, ya. Reality only exists if two or more people agree on it. There can be no one person how believes something that no one else believes. Take Any and I mean Any religion. Someone always believes it, it may be a few people, it may be millions, but someone always believes.

Being comforted in hard times. Everyone needs to be comforted at some point. But as I have seen growing up...you suck it up and you continue if you can. You don't stop, you don't quit, you don't back down. Comfort is all well and good, but eventually the only thing that matters is if you do something or not. I understand what your trying to say, I just don't see it a plausible. Even our own elderly when they get down seem to go peacfully. I can't imagine a hardened peoples who have been used to this idea turning against it. The Plains Indians did it for thousands of years. When the elderly got down, it was the families decision to leave the elderly behind. OR...the elderly would wonder off to find his 'final vision'. I like that. You meet you end with diginity and a closeness to your god.