The Usage of Language and social impacts.

[Graillik Tur]

See, that's why I wanted to talk about it. So far it seems to me that everyone agrees that the double standard sucks, that everyone should relax a little bit, and that the words we use are taken differently depending on how we use them. That brings me to this point. IF the word is pointed at someone or something as an insult, I think you should have to pay. If you just say the word in context to something, not as an insult, it's just a word. That's my opinion. UP is right, we do use the term more loosely down here. But it's not because we have fewer black people, it's because most of the people I hang out with just don't see it as a racial thing. I have had many friends of different races all my life. My first really good friend was black. And Wolf is right, you want to get technical, we are all one race.

So let's just let it go and relax, be kinder to one another, and let the evil conitation of words go away, and see them for what they are, words.

Oh, and that equal rights crap...Men and Women aren't equal. That is why in the military there is legal descrimination. Forward units don't deploy females because of the psychological complications, like the men wanting to protect the women. Or being afraid that a less physically adept female maybe the one dragging you out of combat.

All in all, yes, women are just as smart as men. They can do somethings equally well, but again, a man can't have a baby, and a woman can't get anyone pregnant. Each was designed with a specific role in mind. Something they are just better at naturally. Don't mean you can't adapt and overcome...

Just my thought.

[RivaOni]

what i was getting at though grailik was people wanting special treatment rather than equal rights, that is all

[Silver Adept]

To demand reparations for a wrong comissioned is natural - to give them is correct.

What the question we're dealing with these days is whether or not those reparations have been paid or not. That may be why people still get huffy over words, because of the intent to do harm behind them. It makes those on the receiving end feel as if they haven't been granted their equality. So they will continue to demand special treatments.

Once the words stop being used as pejoratives, then we might be able to achieve something close to the equality both sides seem to be seeking.

[Kiyomi]

NOTE: Generic "you" used. No one in particular is being referred to.

On the other hand, whites have been persecuted as well. Irish were very unwelcome in America, for example, and were degraded and discriminated against. So no race can really claim that they were the ones to suffer the most. EVERYONE'S race has suffered at some point in history. I have no obligation to any race. I have not done anything to anyone, and my ancestors suffered along with everyone elses at some point or another, so please don't whine at me. Yes it's terrible that people's ancestors were enslaved and treated poorly, but it wasn't YOU who had that happen to you and it wasn't ME that did it to you. If you are going to complain and get compensated for what happend to your ancestors, then I should be able to complain and be compensated for what happend to my Irish and Native American ancestors. Hell, I should be able to complain about all men because women were treated poorly for a lot longer than any particular race was. Jews should be able to complain and be compensated for what the Germans did more recently and what other nations have been doing to them throughout history. Germans and Japanese should be able to complain about the prejudice against them after the World Wars when no one liked them or treated them well, even when they were born in the USA and had nothing to do with the war. The list goes on and on until pretty much every person can trace back to a point where their ancestors were mistreated. The hard fact of life is that people are idiots and someone is always going to mistreat someone else. So instead of complaining about the past, it is better to work on the present.

I do agree, though, that it is a double standard to call oneself something and expect others to not call you that. Same thing with women wanting equal rights. If we want equal rights, we have to be willing to accept equal responsibility. If that means I could be drafted, so be it, but then the military should also let women be able to be in the special forces if they have the physical and mental capability to do so (which some certainly do) instead of giving the lame excuse about how a man might feel sorry for a woman if she were hurt and that could hurt the mission. A man could feel sorry for a buddy of his if he was hurt, and THAT could hurt the mission, too, yet the military doesn't stop the special forces troops from establishing connections with each other.

[RivaOni]

and special forces units are trained to switch off from any sort of human emotion or feeling so they can get their job done with no trouble so the excuse that a woman in the forces would cause problems suggests that they havent trained the team well enough (i have seen first hand that it is possible, the only thing my step dad showed emiotion towards was world war 2 films when the allies were winning, he'd sit there giggling and wiping away tears)

[Godwyn]

I will start what seems to be the unpopular opinion and say, words do have power. "The pen is mightier than the sword." The Ten Commandments, Martin Luther's 95 Theses, the Illiad, all are but collections of words and all have power. Words give form to our thoughts which can then be shared with others.

Where I agree is with Graillik in that the intent of the word is what is particularly damaging about it. I can not even hold respect for the people that wanted, and in some places succeeded, in banning the works of Mark Twain, because of racism, mostly due to use of that word. The issue that I think all of special treatment rather than equality as well as most basis for racism or sexism, is ignorance. There are an amazing number of ignorant people, some of them due to no fault of their own, but ignorant none the less.

As far as women getting drafted, I think they should. As for women in the special forces, that is no reason not to allow women to get drafted, all men, barring exceptions, can get drafted, very few can get into the special forces no matter how they try. As far as the psychological issues with it, there I can agree, while it may be the military, as well as our culture's fault, it doesn't stop that it is true. With proper training, yes it would be avoidable, but the fact is the military tries to instill some manner of chivalrous behavior into the troops, as well as that being a common trait of our society. For now, it is a valid reason, but it could certainly be fixed.

[Excel Zero]

[reaper]

*sorry off topic still*
I think what Grallik was saying is we are just physically built differently. It all goes back to evolution of males and females. Men can pack on muscle and are for the most part just designed to be more physically durable than women. And women have the ability to grow a life form inside of them. Recognizing there is a difference doesn't mean your sexist, it means that’s the way it is lol.
If men and women were completely equal, we would not even have males and females, because just the differences in out physiology means we are not equal. They are the yin to our yang.

By no means do I think men and women should not be socially equal. Ideally every one in a society should get equal participation.

[Excel Zero]

[Kiyomi]

But both women and men can be of different builds and physical structure. There are some scarily strong women out there, and there are some very weak and thin men out there. There are big, muscled, girls who could put the majourity of the men to shame. Not necessarily the media's idea of a beautiful woman, but boy they make up for it by being strong! If a woman can get through the physical and mental challenges put out by the special forces instructors, they should be able to get in. In no way am I saying they should take a woman who is not capable for the job. I am just saying that they should give women the chance to show whether or not they are capable and the ones who are should get in.

As Graillik himself said, people can adapt and overcome. Women can adapt and overcome the natural tendency to be physically weaker by working a bit harder (or being born with more muscling and mass than most women). Men can adapt and overcome the natural/sociological tendencies to be "tough" and not show emotion.

As for the starting topic, I agree with Excel. Unless you say something outright racist, like, "I hate this particular race," no one can know for sure that someone is racist. If I called someone a "nigger" it might just be that I didn't know what the word really meant, like a few people here didn't. If I said it with obvious hate in my voice, of course, that would be different. But me calling someone something does not automatically make me, or anyone else, racist. Now, I would not call someone that because I don't feel it is appropriate.