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Ode to the Nice Guys |
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Tobias
*explodes*
Age: 38
Gender: 
Joined: 17 Jan 2003 |
 Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:38 am Post subject: |
That was nicely put, i must say...but there is one thing that i think Therin was trying to say before, and I just wanna see if I can clear it like he did to me:
| Shino wrote: | | To the guys... GET OVER IT. Sometimes you will find a girl that you are very nice to and is not interested in you. There are many different reasons this can be. Maybe she is not physically attracted to you. Maybe she doesn't like some of the interests you have. There are a number of reasons that could be. "Don't want to ruin a friendship" can be one of them. I personally am not a fan of this answer b/c it is, in most cases, a cop out of saying something else. Especially since I believe that a good friendship is the foundation for a great relationship... IF THE TWO PEOPLE ARE ATTRACTED TO EACHOTHER. You have to understand, it's a two way street. You can't force someone to be interested in you. So you may be interested and she may not be. Like Dooters said... MOVE ON! Don't swim around in your self-pity (which seems to be the topic of this thread more than anything). You can't pick a chick and say "That one, I'm going to go over there and be a nice guy to her and she will have to love me." For God's sake!!! IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY! Although that's the way some of you sound. |
It isn't truely a matter of "getting over it." Two of my best friends are girls that turned me down, because they "didn't want to ruin the friendship." And I got over it rather well, because they are two really great people, and you know what, I am not a fan of burning bridges to nice ladies. The only reason why we complain is because we WANT women to say to us "You know...i dont really think you're attractive enough." Why is that? Because I feel it is honest. I feel that the woman is actually being an honest individual by saying that. She may be a cold hearted bitch if she said that, but at least i can take that and say "Well...at least she was blunt." Now, i know im one of the most different people in the world...i prefer people to be blunt like that, and it infuriates me when someone lies or casts a different light on the truth (not always a bad light) to notify someone of something (note: most commonly, it's casting the light...people who lie are just outright rude.) What I'm just trying to get at is that someone like myself, and maybe someone like Therin, just doesn't want a girl saying that she "doesn't want to ruin the friendship." We both have heard these lines numerous times...I've had girls tell me that they were gonna tell the guy that becuase they didn't want him to feel so bad.
Saying something like that makes the guy start thinking about what he could have done differently...someone like me, i heard it, got a tad pissed in the car on the way home, but got home, IM/called the girl, and said "so, whatcha doin next saturday?" But other people tend to sit on these things and really let it hit them hard, because they heard a very general line that doesn't really explain the point. While it may be stating clearly that they don't want to ruin a friendship: What about their friendship is so valuable? Why would they not want to make the friendship better by making a bit tighter? Things that go through my head, but leave quickly because im quick to forgive and accept what I have been given.
Anwyho, I hope i made some sort of sense...its kind of not making sense to me anymore  |
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Shino
Fade into this fantasy, caught in the web of time
Age: 49
Gender:
Joined: 15 Sep 2002 |
| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:59 am Post subject: |
Tobs... I'm 100% with you on that. I never said I wasn't...
| Shino wrote: | | Also, all people, not just women, need to be a little more forward about why they are not interested in a person. Yes, spare their feelings, but let them know you aren't interested... don't give them the "ruin our friendship" or "not ready" excuse IF IT'S NOT TRUE. |
I wasn't saying "get over it" as in get over the chick. I'm saying "Get over it" more toward those that are thinking that it's not worth being a nice guy. It is always worth being a nice guy. I'll be nice to someone just so I can see them smile and say "Thank you." That's worth it for me.
I am with you about the cop out lines. I don't think they are ALWAYS cop out lines, but a lot of times it sounds like it.
Also, remember I said...
| Shino wrote: | | Especially since I believe that a good friendship is the foundation for a great relationship... |
And I stand by that.
And as far as being honest...
The 3 things needed to make any sort of relationship (including a friendship) successful... COMMUNICATION, HONESTY, TRUST!
So yes, I agree that girls should be more honest. But guys do it too. So people need to be more honest. |
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Damion
Senior Otaku
Gender:
Joined: 30 Sep 2004 |
| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:52 pm Post subject: |
| Shino wrote: | THERIN - Your my friend, and I respect you... but you are not going to like what I have to say...
First off, I 100% agree with Shan on her reasoning that she wants to be in a relationship only if she knows it will last. You know why? Let's say I get into a relationship with a chick that likes me a lot, but I don't really like her and don't feel like it would work out. So you are saying I should give that relationship a few weeks or so before I make a decision. So I do that. Within that 3 weeks, this girl falls head over heals in love with me (Ask Shan if this is far fetched) and I feel nothing. And I have to tell her that I have to break it off b/c I just don't feel it will work for me. Now she is crushed. Ten times more so then if I would have just stayed with my original thought that it wouldn't work. |
You know, everyone's disagreeing with me for saying "three weeks". It made a good example. That's all. My point, believe it or not, is exactly what you're saying. It really says a lot when some girl doesn't care enough about your feelings to just stand up and say what needs to be said. Aka, "Look, this isn't going to work."
I've never even heard that line. From anyone. Ever. Not even once. I've said it. Never heard it. You know what happens instead? And this is what really gets me: "Look, this isn't going to work," is six words. SIX WORDS! It is NOT hard to say. But somehow, I've never heard it. I've never even heard "You know, I really wish you'd stop doing that." Instead, I just get shoved off to the side as a problem for another day, and then something else comes along and suddenly I'm a crystal chandelier fallen from the ceiling. And then someone remembers to go "Oh, I'm sorry."
That is a great way to show that you care.
Now, part of why I said a week or three is because, after ten seconds, there's no good way to know. Maybe some guy puts up a front! Duh-huh! We're not gods! Expecting to know whether someone is suitable within ten seconds of a meeting is like saying, "I'd read the book, but I read the back cover instead." I know, because I've seen some sh***y back covers to some amazing books.
If, after three weeks, you end up breaking some girl's heart by saying, "Look, I gave it a chance, and it's not working. Sorry," here's the thing: It's better than waiting three months to do it. My point was, give it some time instead of making a snap desicion after twelve seconds at a party or some crap. Just think about it. If people did that to me at parties, I wouldn't have any friends.
| Shino wrote: | And you know what... I bet if you stopped feeling sorry for yourself, and returned to the Josh I know. You know, the one who is always acting crazy just to get a smile on someone's face, the Josh that is supportive of everyone, no matter what. Then OPEN YOUR EYES up to your surroundings, maybe, JUST MAYBE, you would see A GREAT THING STARING YOU RIGHT IN THE FACE. And maybe, just maybe, you can find a way to feel happy.
And no Josh... I'm not talking about the chick at Starbucks that said you were cute. Take a step back, open your eyes, and figure it out. Stop being so angry at everyone. Be happy for what people have. Be supportive of your friends. And don't stop being a nice guy just b/c you don't get what you want. You want an analogy. Here's an odd one. Think about a kid throwing a temper tantrum b/c his mother doesn't get him a game he wants. Childish right? Well as far fetched as it may be, it's not much different from you being mad at the world and saying that your time as a nice guy is over. |
Well, I'll give you a counter analogy. Imagine some kid, who goes to the store with his mom, sees a toy, and asks for it. She says no. He asks for it again. Same answer. This goes and goes and goes, until finally, his mother gets fet up and slaps him across the face, and he cries, but he shuts up. Then he sees another toy that he likes. "Oh, Mom, can I have that?"
Can you see where I'm going with this? Good. Here's my point: I'm through begging. The next time mom wants to buy me a toy, she's gonna have to do it without my input.
The next time some girl wants my respect and friendship, she's going to have to earn it. Because I'm done begging.
| Shino wrote: | | I know you are probably fuming right now. I know it seems that I'm digging into you the most and I know that some of this probably shouldn't be up here, but neither should the conversation between you and tobs. It's up here and I said it b/c I know you the best out of the people that have responded. And I'm digging into you b/c I see what kind of potential you have. If you could just take a couple more steps up, you would be golden! Before you get hasty and respond out of anger, stop for a sec and think about what I have said. Reread it. If you think hard enough, you may see that I have made good points. |
There ain't a lot that makes me angry, and that ain't it. I appreciate the consideration. You're a great friend. Thanks. |
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Shino
Fade into this fantasy, caught in the web of time
Age: 49
Gender:
Joined: 15 Sep 2002 |
| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:09 pm Post subject: |
| Damion wrote: | | There ain't a lot that makes me angry, and that ain't it. I appreciate the consideration. You're a great friend. Thanks. |
Good. I'm glad you didn't take it hard. Honestly, I am only trying to help.
I agree with most of what you have said. Think of it this way as well. Some times young people make bad decisions b/c they don't know that the "right" decision is actually the right decision.
That's the case here I think. Instead of being honest with you, they are trying to spare your feelings and all it does is make it hurt more.
Eventually people learn... It takes experience.
| Damion wrote: | Well, I'll give you a counter analogy. Imagine some kid, who goes to the store with his mom, sees a toy, and asks for it. She says no. He asks for it again. Same answer. This goes and goes and goes, until finally, his mother gets fet up and slaps him across the face, and he cries, but he shuts up. Then he sees another toy that he likes. "Oh, Mom, can I have that?"
Can you see where I'm going with this? Good. Here's my point: I'm through begging. The next time mom wants to buy me a toy, she's gonna have to do it without my input.
The next time some girl wants my respect and friendship, she's going to have to earn it. Because I'm done begging. |
OK..
Let's take that analogy.
If you had a child, or you were babysitting, would that annoy you?
Sure as hell would me. Same thing here
"Begging" is just as bad for you as it is for that child. It's annoying and all it does is turn the person further away from you b/c it makes them uncomfortable.
Keep in mind that when one party settles for the other just b/c he/she likes her/him, it doesn't make for a good relationship. So whereas girls in your past should have been more honest with you, They are still doing what is best for both of you.
What you are saying you are going to do is EXACTLY what I have been telling you to do. Sit back and let her (whoever she is) come to you.
The thing is, you don't have to stop being a nice guy. Just let things be. If you are interested in someone, of course I think you should explore that, but if she says no, she says no. End it there and move on. You shouldn't have to beg... nor should you.
That's all.
When you find the girl that you are interested in, that immediatly returns that interest (and it will happen), that is when you will be happy. |
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Doot
Cute and Non-Abrasive Hyper Hypo
Gender: 
Joined: 15 Sep 2002 |
| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:25 pm Post subject: |
Let me just rephrase that when I mentioned the 10 second theory - it's about chemistry. Not necessarily just about friendship. As Shino put it, his first impressions of some people woulda turned him off to them - then again, he was speaking of other males.  The theory is meant for the gender you are attracted to. Whether you find it swift or not, upon looking and hearing someone you would be able to know at that point a) if that person is someone you'd like to get to know better for a romantic relationship b) if that person would remain only a friend or c) if you had no intentions at all giving that person a second thought.
Thing is, everyone keeps tossing analogies around but you know something, the human being can't be summed up that way.
The problem most the time in situations lamenting about being the nice guy and being turned down is that typically the person complaining is so starved for the attention that they want something ABSOLUTE. Nobody said you have to run a race to get hooked up with someone. Yes, you may be interested in someone but ultimatley you have to be ok with yourself, because it should never alter someone in a bad way if they are rejected.
So, since we've also gotten the point that girls aren't straight forward behind their reasons, ya know what, they don't have to be any more than boys do. Yes it sucks they may not be telling you the complete truth of why they turned you down but is your life over because of it? No. Can you remain friends? Yes! However, getting into a further intimate relationship with someone who started as a friend can have its reprocussions. I've been friends with every one of my boyfriends before we dated but honestly it was never just a platonic thing. There was always a further interest. As there always is in that case. So what you invest in your friendship is at stake. If you are turned down by someone you perceive to have like interests and be the type of girl you'd date then you've probably misread her feelings. YOU KNOW when someone likes you and you them because that chemistry is there.
Being friends before a relationship is nice, but ultimately and not realistically will you remain friends (of the calibur you were before the romance) after said romance has faded. It's the journey of learning more about them and the pleasant surprises throughout the relationship.
So what if you get turned down or they choose someone else other than you. If you truly are the nice guy you say you are, then guess what, it's HER loss if she can't see it. But if you are the "nice guy" labelled because you feel sorry for yourself for not stepping up to the plate, I'll tell ya one thing, girls can smell low self esteem a mile away and as many of us can tell you, confidence is a major deal maker when it comes to finding a partner. |
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Shino
Fade into this fantasy, caught in the web of time
Age: 49
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Joined: 15 Sep 2002 |
| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject: |
| Doot wrote: | | I'll tell ya one thing, girls can smell low self esteem a mile away and as many of us can tell you, confidence is a major deal maker when it comes to finding a partner. |
That is SO the truth. |
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Ultrawolf
Mr. Roarke
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Joined: 04 Jul 2003 |
| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:20 pm Post subject: |
Low Self Esteem is a waste of time anyway.
What's the point in feeling sorry for yourself?
You're not helping your situation any, in fact you're probably only hurting yourself. When you feel depressed you get tunnel vision, and that's really the simple matter of it. You can't see all the good things around you, because you're too focused on the bad. You won't accomplish anything lying face down in the mud. Nothing will change unless you make it change. So pick yourselves up Soldiers, and keep marching.
/salute |
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Blackmage
Intragalactic Acquisitions Agent Mew
Gender:
Joined: 02 Feb 2004 |
| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 6:41 pm Post subject: |
I don't like Therins whole trial period thing, it just doesn't seem right to me. Too much that can go wrong on either side. I wouldn't ever date anyone that I honestly couldn't see myself with down the road. |
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Yunni
Is a broken record.
Gender:
Joined: 15 Jul 2005 |
| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:27 am Post subject: |
Wowies, I missed a lot o.o *read read read*
Bah, I agree with Doot. Its about the chemestry. 'First Impressions' is a big deal, you can not deny that it does make a difference. If you meet a person and don't see them much after that, it isn't a big deal and life goes on (unless you really like them - by which you get off your arse and contact them) - however if you see them often, you have the chance to actually get to know them, and thusly, know for sure if you like them or not. Chemistry is there for quick attraction - the body wants your good genes to sexzorz with other good genes, and really - a relationship is not needed for continuing a race. If you want a PARTNER for life, then that's when you try and get to know a person - if you think about it, short term chemestry attraction is different to long term 'love' attraction.
I don't want to say 'if its meant to be it will happen' because this is not a story, its real life. You have to work at things and this includes friendships and relationships. Therefore, even the nice guy has to be tough now and again - and if he likes someone he should go for it.
Being honest - I do not find whiny men to be attractive. Too much complaining is not at all sexy. Ranting and venting now again is a different matter, but if they complain about something and not do anything to try and sort it out... bah.
Heheh, then again - I really find guys who try too hard to be irritating  Stalkers are not for me  lol |
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Shino
Fade into this fantasy, caught in the web of time
Age: 49
Gender:
Joined: 15 Sep 2002 |
| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:16 am Post subject: |
| Yunni wrote: | | Heheh, then again - I really find guys who try too hard to be irritating Stalkers are not for me lol |
*yells at Ethan*
See I told you!!!! |
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