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Girkon
Chop Chop Fiend



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:28 am    Post subject:

Shurikane wrote:
What do I do to fix all this? Nothing.


That is the point, sure the future is important but you're certainly not giving much thought if you're not even gonna get of your bum and try to make a difference in something. It doesn't have to change the world, heck it doesn't even have to change your neighborhood. Just settle for making the differences in yourself.

In fact everyone can make even the tiniest change by not being so stick in the muddish about humanity. Yes it can suck, yes the world will blow chunks someday, but here's the thing, everyone just about knows that already. It's in almost every weekly post in this section. Though if you notice there's people that understand and try to make a difference by being a part of others lives. Even you gotta admit you do that. PO does more with the collective minds of it's members who share experiences. With Doot and Shino and PRG and so forth. They have made a difference in our lives, I think it is only fair that if they can put such selfless effort into it, that we can be the same. Or at least aspire to do our best.

That certainly counts for more than nothing.

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Rizzen
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:50 am    Post subject:

Well I agree, but here's my question. What is everyone griping about in here then? PO has made a difference. Families, forums, friends, all that good stuff makes a difference. If you're saying that it can be as simple as being a part of someone's life, then case closed. We've done this. PRactically everyone in the world has someone in their lives that makes a difference. So what else is there to do?

See for ages there have been good influences in the world. Some people take these good influences and ride em all the way to the bank. They now lead good lives and they reat other's around them the same way. So kudos for them. However, there are also bad influences out there. And some people take those bad influences and ride em all the way to their demise. My question for those who believe they can make a difference in the world is this; What world are you talking about? Maybe it's the scope that this world needs to redefine. Go out and make a difference in one person's world and in my eyes, you've performed a miracle already. So I look out at you people here, you good people, and I hink you guys have already performed many miracles. So many people ae in his rush to overhaul Earth but it won't happen. It isn't because we aren't good, it's just history. We aren't big enough. Now this isn't a put down, because alot of people on this forum have completely ovrhauled MY world many times. In case you guys haven't noticed, I've started a few threads here dedicating thanks and gratitude to people on this forum. It wasn't to be selfish, it was to say what I really felt. So let me say it again, thank you to those people who have had a positive impact here. With that and other events in my life, I've turned into a law abiding, happy citizen. So thanks, but you can't win every fight.

The problem I see is the history and the massive scope of the world. I've heard alot of people talk about the ripple effect. You do one nice thing for someone, he turns and does a nice thing, and bam the whole world has had good karma spread over it, but it isn't like that. My big problem is people need to stop blaming themselves for everything. Case in point...

Let's say today I walk to the grocery store to buy some...whatever...just something. I walk to the cashier and go to pay when I notice a mother, clearly stressed due to her normally nice children behind me. I, being the gallant man that I try to be, say "please go ahead of me". See I know that the mother has alot more things to deal with than I do and frankly I am in no hurry. So she passes, smiles, and now I've made her day just a little brighter. Well I feel good, and so does she, so some time in the next few days, she doesn something nice, then someone she does something nice for does the same, and so on and so on. The problem is, eventually it will hit a selfish person and bam that line stops. So why do people feel the need to blame themselves? Who knows...I sure don't. Quitbeing so hard folks. Just do what you can in your scope and yes, try to reach out further than wha people perceive you to be, but know that somewhere in your own line of good karma, it can get stopped.

So my big conclusion is this; alter the scope of the perception of the world, and you will perform miracles well beyond any fiction writer can ever describe. Perhaps then we can step closer to the ultimate goal.

-Rizzen

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shadokastur
Patience to see and strength to do. That is all.



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:28 pm    Post subject:

But that is the ripple! Acknowledging that something IS wrong and even if it's a decision that never comes to fruition that person KNOWS that something is wrong. What might deter action is not knowing what is the right action or poor self-image. But the seed is planted the ripple has started. With the knowledge of what is wrong will come the thought of what is right. But that person talks to someone about it and then they will start thinking about it and make a decision and if they think it's wrong then that cliff is being assaulted by two small ripples and so on and so on until a thousand or more small ripples have become a hundred large waves and the erosion is moving on in full force.

If your view is limited to what you will see in your lifetime then your scope is a crippling one. Just as above it's not one single blow from a small wave that erodes the cliff it's the constant attempt.

I believe that ALL people are born intrinsically GOOD. It is only the mindsets and mentalities of those they take as examples that cripples them. Example: Rizzen's lady in the grocery store goes on to do something nice for someone else, a guy. But this guy's dad had an inflated sense of self and this guy takes it as a come-on. He pursues the matter but she turns him down and now this situation has become a source of pain for this guy (whether it's defending his ego or nursing a personal "I'm not good enough" wound) and the ripple stops with him because of the lingering negative outlook of the affect that his father's example had on him. But let's back up to the grocery store and switch perspectives to the cashier: He/ She sees Rizzen give up his place in line to someone who really appreciates the gesture. While not directly affected by the act (they ring up whoever's next anyway), the cashier continues the ripple in their own way. So, these acts, these ripples, have an area affect chain reaction (just like how electricity can jump between people)! It is an easy observation that people want to feel good and avoid suffering. And it is easy to see which actions will encourage which reactions!

This is my proven (to myself at least, because I have seen it in action) philosophy and one that I have vowed to live. I'm not perfect and I still may be a self-centered @$$hole from time to time but I will make a conscious effort to lessen the gaps between my good actions and deeds and I know that NO MATTER WHERE I START the resulting ripple will become a wave for somebody somewhere. One of my greatest joys in life is knowing that each good thing that happens to me is the result of someone else wanting to start a wave with a ripple. A smile can not help but come from that.

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Damion
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:19 pm    Post subject:

But by contrast you have to factor in the cashier who goes home and watches her roomate get beaten by her boyfriend, or gets her purse stolen, or gets run over because some jerkoff was talking on his cell phone instead of watching the road. Every good ripple you create is balanced by the bad ripples, the troughs in the sine wave. That's the way the world works, otherwise, we wouldn't be in the rut that we're in right now. There are plenty of good people around. One would think this ripple effect would certainly have left us with a better place than we have by now.

It was, I think, balanced, for a long, long time. What finally began to tip the scales in the favor of descent was sensationalism. Turn on the news. When was the last time you heard something good? Something pleasant? If every good act observed is a ripple in the pond, then our news media is like suspending a four-ton truck full of bad gravel over the pond and slowly upending it. Nothing you ever do on your own will ever be enough to counteract that. It's like a juggernaut in full motion; the inertia alone is enough to crush everything in its path.

If you really want to get down to it, change the world for the better, mold our society into a better, more user-friendly program, you won't do it by spreading ripples. You'll do it by getting up in front of the cameras and using that truckload of gravel to your advantage. All it takes is one person. One person strong enough, charismatic enough, determined enough to show the world how to change. It won't be easy. It won't be pleasant. But, do it right, and it will work.

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Rizzen
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Joined: 14 Dec 2005
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:19 pm    Post subject:

welll....I dunno. I gotta stick with what I said earlier and what Therin sort of backed up. I mean I know he wasn't siding with me completely but it's like he said. That cashier's ripple can be stopped just like every other one around me when it started in the grocery store.

See what Damion said I can sort of agree with. If someone with enough charm and influence were to try to make a difference, then it may get done. See as he said, if that ripple effect was enough, then I think the world would be where we hoped it would be already.

Now as far the scope argument goes, I am quite happy where I am. I know you weren't attacking me personally so I am not worried about it, but for this time in my life, I know I am not strong enough to be that guy that changes the world. It isn't my time. Personally I think I am doing better by not stepping up yet. If I try to step up, knowing I am too weak, I'll get shut down. Perhaps then I will not go back to being happy-go-lucky me...maybe this time I get shut down and go into cynicism. Then I become another person who stops ripples. This I know is possible because I have felt it. I tried to be that guy once, I got shut down hard because I was too weak. From that stemmed depression, hatred, and fury. Now it took me a long time to realize, but I am not a victim here. That failure was my fault for not noticing it was way too early to try that.

Now, all this being said, I am actually on your side. I want this to work. Heck I want to be that guy, if for no other reason than I am sick of seeing people treat each other and themselves the way they do. I don't care about glory and I don't care about my honor, I just want it to stop, but the ripples haven't worked, and I am not strong enough to do it myself at this time in life. Again, I do pray this all get's fixed some day. Either way I gotta stay with Damion on this and hope that one person with the charm and influence finds his or her way to the podium of the world.

-Rizzen

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shadokastur
Patience to see and strength to do. That is all.



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:30 pm    Post subject:

Damion wrote:
But by contrast you have to factor in the cashier who goes home and watches her roomate get beaten by her boyfriend, or gets her purse stolen, or gets run over because some jerkoff was talking on his cell phone instead of watching the road.


These only occur because of the reasons in my opening post. These people feel powerless or it's the desire for pleasure that makes them deaf to others and the world around them. These things are at the root of the cliff we need to strike.

Damion wrote:
Every good ripple you create is balanced by the bad ripples, the troughs in the sine wave. That's the way the world works, otherwise, we wouldn't be in the rut that we're in right now.


When we say things like this in resignation we have closed the door of opportunity and given away our chance for experiencing the possiblities that good deeds hold. This phrase is self defeating. TRY optimism. It's VERY difficult and if you are anything like me you will wonder sometimes if you are deluding yourself into a happy-go-lucky stupor. But once you see the effect that even a minute act of kindness can create, even a smile to a passer-by, maybe you would like it and find the effort to maintain it worthwhile.


Damion wrote:
There are plenty of good people around. One would think this ripple effect would certainly have left us with a better place than we have by now.


Even a ocean is formed drop by drop.(Buddhist saying). Yes there are plenty of good people (especially if you see things from my perspective) but as I'm sure all of you have experienced it is easy to get discouraged and many often give up, thus killing their own ripple. But it only takes a drop ,whether it is a kind act of your own or an acknowledgment of a good deed of theirs, to start the ripple again.

Damion wrote:
It was, I think, balanced, for a long, long time. What finally began to tip the scales in the favor of descent was sensationalism. Turn on the news. When was the last time you heard something good? Something pleasant? If every good act observed is a ripple in the pond, then our news media is like suspending a four-ton truck full of bad gravel over the pond and slowly upending it.


Thich Naht Hahn remarked on this trend by saying "...this is because good news is nothing to good people." The brain works on problems. So, if there is no problem the brain is not engaged and boredom soon follows. It is an exploitation that once realized can be defused inside yourself. Even this knowledge is a drop in the forming ocean.

Damion wrote:
Nothing you ever do on your own will ever be enough to counteract that. It's like a juggernaut in full motion; the inertia alone is enough to crush everything in its path.


I hope by now I have at least put up a convincing observation that everything is done 'on your own.'

Damion wrote:
If you really want to get down to it, change the world for the better, mold our society into a better, more user-friendly program, you won't do it by spreading ripples. You'll do it by getting up in front of the cameras and using that truckload of gravel to your advantage. All it takes is one person. One person strong enough, charismatic enough, determined enough to show the world how to change. It won't be easy. It won't be pleasant. But, do it right, and it will work.


In saying this you are absolutely correct. It will take a person exactly like the one you've described. But just like Excel/Rizzen pointed out earlier it has to be the right time:

Rizzen wrote:
Now as far the scope argument goes, I am quite happy where I am. I know you weren't attacking me personally so I am not worried about it, but for this time in my life, I know I am not strong enough to be that guy that changes the world. It isn't my time. Personally I think I am doing better by not stepping up yet. If I try to step up, knowing I am too weak, I'll get shut down.


It is THIS realization, knowing that you are not where you need to be that saved you from becoming a martyr or a fanatic and using an "ends justifies the means" mentality to commit all kinds of brutalities (physical and mental) against your fellow man in the name of the so-called "greater good." Even though this statement seems to be a self proclaimed defeat, this acknowledgement of your limitations is a step in the right direction. Keep going, Rizzen. If you know what you lack you know where to work.

That person HAS to be ready. Meaning he/she has to have the understanding, has to be willing to work on what's wrong and be able to explain EVERYTHING in the simplest terms possible to make it more 'user-friendly'. I also realized this a long time ago and I also was that person who was hit so hard that I just gave up and let the patterns swallow me whole. But I saw that that mindset was more destructive than being "a drop in the ocean", than ignoring the compounded negativity that encouraged Tobias' crowd mentality example and just starting a ripple with a simple act and never really being able to know how far that ripple traveled but at the same time not worrying about it. I believe that if we keep at it and diffuse the cause and effect cycle that dictates our actions from outside of us maybe we could all be that person and no cliff could stand before us.

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It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built. ~Darth Traya~
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Tobias
*explodes*


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:58 pm    Post subject:

Personally, the only thing that keeps us from being able to be the changers and "tippers of the truck" are our mentalities that we aren't ready yet. It is good to know that you aren't ready, but sometimes, people use this as an excuse to avoid it, because it is too great a responsibility.

Similarly, I don't think that charm and influence is as powerful as it is said to be...rather, it is the Will of the person that is most important, and the level of belief they have in an action.

My example, said to Damion once before, is as follows:

One of the ways it was said that Gladitorial battle was ended in Rome was due to a simple monk who was just visiting Rome that day. Visiting to bring something from one temple to the other, he was told that he should visit the Coliseum to see a good show. His fancy tickled, he decided to give it a whirl, and see what is going on. This monk witnessed that day some of hte most awful things he could have witnessed; people senselessly killing each other, people cheering it on, you name it. He yelled out for people to stop sanctioning the ruthless bloodsport, but no one listened. The monk then took it upon hismelf to jump into the actual ring...into the lion's den, where he attempted to stop the gladiators from fighting. Instead, he was cut down brutally, every attack was followed by another plead to stop as he was cut down. When he died, the crowd went silent as he just continued to plead right to his death for people to stop. After witnessing it, the whole of the coliseum clicked, and realized what had happened, and turned around, and left. The Gladiators couldn't believe what they had done, and had put down their weapons and stopped fighting. No one ever went to the coliseum again to watch a fight, and no gladiator never participated again.

Now the monk in this story isnt a well spoken man...in fact, no one listened, all that happened was he tried to stop a machine that was moving full force, and he just got caught up in the gears, but his will and belief were so great that he tried, even though he knew there was a chance that he couldn't succeed, and that awful chance took lead and took his life. But one man took that chance, and he wasn't the most charming or most awe-inspiring man.


To finish my point...i dont think im a very charismatic person. I have charm, and ive gained my own following that believes that i have a way with dealing with my inner self, but it doesn't mean i am a "chosen messiah" or anything. But you know what...it never hurt me to take my stab at the world. The only way to hit that right moment is to keep on trying, and every time the world dishes out the loss, you take it, swallow your pride, and keep moving. It seems like self mutliation, but its the only way someone like me learns. I've lost a lot of things, games, and had my own share of bad experiences...in fact, I practically live in a bad experience, but it doesn't stop me. In fact, all I do is learn from it, and it builds me up to be the man I am. Every loss i have, every bad event just teaches me something new about myself that i never thought i could know. What people need to do is stop thinking that they aren't that right person, or that it isn't their time yet.

Ferris Beuller said it once: "Life moves pretty fast, if you don't stop every once in a while to see it, you could miss it."

Volrath said something else: "I've stepped out...but i have not stepped down."

and Popeye said it best: "I am what I am, and that's all that I am."



That is all.

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