Nintendo Wii... Only Next gen console?

[GAAZ]

Edit Shino: This topic was split off of the discussion about the discontinued 20G PS3. The thought was originally started by Razer. See quotes.

[Shino]

First just to clarify... "That it is my friend" was referring to what Razer said being "another debate." Thus the new topic I split off...

I tend to agree with Gaaz to an extent.

I love the system. But I don't consider it a next gen console.

Next implies moving forward. Sony and MS did move forward. Improved Graphics and Sound, HD, high feature online systems, buddy lists, voice chat, etc.

Instead of moving forward, Nintendo just kinda went to the left. As much as I hate to use the term... the Wii is more "new" gen. It's really a retarded term, but it's accurate.

The only game I have on the Wii that I have played when no one else was around was Zelda. Without a doubt, my game of the year last year, but right now... Everything in my entertainment center gets more work than the Wii.

I think I'm turning it on once in a while to keep up with the polls, but that's about it. Don't get me wrong, I love the thing, but I just wish they would hurry up with the AAA titles.

[Ultrawolf]

I dunno, I had a blast with Zelda. I know you don't feel the same way Gaaz but at the same time I know you haven't even given it a fair chance. Your complaint at the time was something along the lines of "I'm too tired after work to play a game where I have to swing my arms around". Which can be a fair point but the point is you haven't been playing it and I remember the other day you said it was a "bad game". Is it a bad game or is it because of the circumstances in which you have to play the game?

That being said, I agree that Red Steel sucks. Haven't played Trauma Center, you don't own Wario, and I remember your frustration with Cooking Mama. As far as games I own, I loved Sonic, Zelda, am enjoying Super Paper Mario right now and a blast with Metal Slug and Marvel Ultimate Alliance with you. However, all of those games save Sonic were not built from the ground up for Wii.

I think it's too early to pass such critical judgment on the Wii. Just because -you- haven't been playing yours doesn't mean it's a bad system. I'm enjoying mine a lot, and am anticipating a lot of the future titles that will come out. Pokemon Battle Revolution, Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, Resident Evil Chronicles, Mario Party 8, Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I've enjoyed downloading games off of the virtual console as well, Donkey Kong Country, Super Mario World, ToeJam and Earl, and others. It's a nice service.

Now I think there is definitely room for improvement. I agree with the Save state thing, while it might seem minor to some people I would have liked more transportability with my save files. I do wish the online gaming service would hurry up and come along, I do not like friend codes and while I'm not asking for something as massively awesome as XBOX Live, microsoft has the idea right with a centralized account for online gaming. One buddy list, not twenty. I'm ok with the Graphics. You get what you pay for, I paid 250 not 500 dollars, I didn't expect to get XBOX 360 quality graphics. And horrible is a relative term. Do you look at your DS and go "Man why doesn't this look like my PS2?" No you don't. I see the same thing when I look at the Wii.

It's another class of gaming console. Is it Next Gen? Dunno, depends on the definition of Next Generation. If all we're looking at is an escalation of graphical quality and hardware? No. If we're looking for changing the way we control games and feel immersion? Yes, absolutely.

I'm more interested in how the next generation of systems will be. I fully expect them -all- to have some level of tilt/motion sensing control, the Nintendo Wii is just a stepping stone to that.

I don't think you're being fair Gaaz, and I guess you don't really have to be. I think everyone is entitled to their own opinions and just because our ideas differ doesn't mean we have to be at ends with each other. What works for me, might not work for you, if that's the case maybe the Wii isn't for you. And that's fine, really. I don't want to force you to change your mind about something you have an opinion on, I would just ask that everyone be open minded and let's not turn this thread into a breeding ground for flame wars or something stupid. I want to believe we're all mature adults but I know that people have bias and that's just the way it is.

The system's not perfect I agree but I have been having a blast with mine and don't regret it. That's just -my- stance. Not asking it to be anybody else's. As long as Nintendo keeps making games I like, i'll keep buying them.

[Gekko]

The only reason I haven't been playing my Wii more, quite simply is because I'm a Gears of War junkie, I play that for, prolly 6 hours a day which is all of my gaming time. But, you guys, I know it's early, but think about the next system from Nintendo, right now, they are simply lining their pockets with something they haven't had in awhile, a runaway success. Because of their business model, they will almost always be around, simply because even if something that they release -mass market- "fails" they generally always make money per unit, which doesn't mean they break even, on the whole, but they aren't taking the bath that Sony and Microsoft are right now, but then again, those are HUGE companies with financial gains in other areas of their business that can help float their gaming sectors losses. Nintendo isn't, they are a gaming company, IMHO the greatest gaming company to date. Nintendos vision of gaming IS what gaming is. My only real gripe with the Wii is that it was supposed to be like 2x as powerful as an Xbox, but I have yet to see anything as nice looking as Doom 3 on the Wii, I think it's more comparable to maybe the PS2 I guess, but thats not good either, because the Gamecube had better graphics than the PS2. But I believe that all systems will be "motion controlled" in the next "Next Gen Wars" and that Nintendo will be heads and shoulders over the competition with the next lvl of motion control, and that they will have enough cash in their vaults to pay for the graphical upgrade, that so many ppl knock the Wii for not having. I love HD, I really do but it's not like ppl watch you play a game, and get fooled into thinking it's NOT a game, which would be true immersion. But every single person I know after picking up the Wii-mote and Bowling, or playing Baseball or throwing cows in Rayman, has said, "Wow, I really felt like I was doing it!" THAT is true immersion. I look at Wii games right now, like I used to look at GRAPHIC quality of 1st gen "next gen" systems, meh, it's ok, but 2 years from now, when they harness exactly what they have under the hood, it'll be amazing! Not only are we having to re-learn how to play these games, the designers have to learn how to make the user interface not just usable, but smoooooooooooth. Give them time, I think they'll figure it out. I'm exhausted now.

[Shino]

Gekko... I agree with you. As I said, I love the Wii. And I'll be the last to turn down playing a good game b/c of graphics. But honestly, it would have been nice if they dropped like another $50 on the GPU in the sucker. I would have happily paid $300 for this thing.

Right now, everyone sees it as a glorified Gamecube. And I can't say I blame them. That's pretty much what it seems to be. But throw a GPU that cost like another $50 each, throw the price up to $300. You are still the one with the innovation, and you can still say you are cheapest on the market, especially since it's coming with a game.

[Robb]

Now that all 3 consoles are out, there is no such thing as a next gen console, its all the current generation.

[GAAZ]

[Razer]

Sorry but there was no short version of this. Go get something to drink and a comfy chair. I'll wait...





OK, let's go.

To debate what system is truly Next Gen we must define Next Gen. Well my definition of "next gen" is not graphic improvement. The PS3 and 360 do one thing..."er". The graphics are bettER, sharpER, clearER, The sound is bettER, sharpER, clearER. So where's the NEXT gen? What in the PS3 is the "next generation" of gaming..or even the next generation of PS2? Removable memory storage? Sega Saturn. Online gameplay? Did that with my Genesis. Wireless controllers? Had that since Atari 2600, believe it or not.
The rebuttals go as such: 4-6 saves in a game designed for 3 is just to create debate. So if Zelda held 10 saves you could say "I want 11". 3 save slots in a 1 player game is pretty satisfactory IMO.
Horrible graphics? Try looking at the first generation PS2 games and then looking at God Of War 2. Everything only gets better in time. In my experience, and I've never owned more than 10 games for any Nin home console since the NES, I've never seen clipping or polygon breakup. I'm not saying it's never happened but I never saw it. Yugioh, Pokemon, PSO. They all looked good. The games played within the system specs. I'm not impressed when games are super-dee-duper in one aspect but 1st grade-ish in others. So far, none of the PS3 games have been stated to be anything more than great graphics. Well the graphics will just naturally get better in every system. That's a no brainer. I can't comment much on the XB since I don't own, play, or plan to own or play one. I love Halo, to me that is the epitome of shooters in all aspects. But guess what? It's nothing to PC players. They've been playing everything that Halo had to offer for years so that squashes my opinion. XB Live is the benchmark for online console gaming however and the PS3 is nowhere near that yet. The Wii however, isn't even trying to get there so you can't compare it. What the Wii does is something no other console has done in a long time. It makes gaming fun.
This does not mean we haven't been having fun playing games but rather the fact that "gaming" is just fun to do. When was the last time you played a PS2 game and laughed out loud or just felt like you were having fun? When ever? Not just "wow, this game is fun" like we all do the day we get a new game but say "that was fun" AFTER you're finished playing? We've had motion sensors since the U-Force for the NES but this is totally different. The differnet ways the controller is used (not "held") in Warioware is amazing. This is next gen.
The PS3 (and I'm not really addressing the XB family simply because I do not know enough about it so I feel unqualified) brings little to the table that the PS or PS2 didn't already do and nothing at all when it comes to gaming in general. The ONLY thing it presents is graphic clarity. Well guess what? That is because of the HD signal, not the system. Take away the "super wonderful" graphics and what do you have? As a gaming system? Nothing new at all. And to quickly squelch the cheer of graphics I will say this: I download some TV shows off the Net. When I DL an HDTV version I watch it on my plain ole TV and can see the difference. Now they don't film two versions of a TV show so it clearly is not the system/TV. It is the signal. Compare Motorstorm on a TV against GT3 and I'm sure GT3 will come out comparable, if not better, in some spots. Also as far as the Wii's "horrible graphics", it's not even trying to do that level of visuals so there is no way you can qualify that. It's like complaining that your Ferrari can't pull your motorhome. It was never intended to and doesn't want to.

But enough of that and back to the main point. Let's not talk what we like and don't like. Nobody cares what you like or don't like. It doesn't matter what you like and don't like as far as definitions go. Next Gen means an advancement and introducing some form of innovation or major efficiency design. The PS3 simply does not do that while the Wii does. Period. We can like the games or not, we can like the system or not. That won't change any facts. I personally wish they would have enabled more of the games to use the classic controller and made the motion control an option. Who cares what I want? The fact that you may or may not be impressed by this or that doesn't change the fact that the hardware is more advanced than it's competition. It is not as advanced in some areas but the PS3 is not even in the ballpark. Simple fact: The PS3 is the next generation of Playstation simply because it's been built with the archetecture but it is NOT next Generation to gaming.

Now I'll drop the "Who does he think he is" bomb right here...if you cannot lay out at least one thing that the PS3 does that the 360 AND the Wii do not do IN TERMS OF GAMING then please don't waste our bandwidth here. And I don't want to hear "it plays BluRays" because the Gamecube played Gamecube discs (minidiscs?) and what did that mean to gaming? Also we can debate what we like and don't like until we all die, that's not what this topic is about tho. Please debate factually and not with your heart.

Again 360 owners, I can't intelligently assess the XB nor XB 360 so that ground is better left to those that own those systems.

[Shurikane]

I find the limited number of saves argument pretty valid. I should be able to have as many saves as my memory card allows. Every game should be designed this way and I don't understand why developers would have a reason to do otherwise. My only limit should be in the hardware or the programming language. Not an arbitrary number because the developers said so. In several cases, I have less save slots than what I wanted. In many racing games I play, I don't have enough space in my garage or customization menu to fit every car in the game (I'm mostly looking at Need For Speed series, Tokyo Xtreme Racer, Sega GT among others) and I shouldn't have to create a new profile simply to fit in the remaining cars I wanted. So far, the only game to allow me space for every car and then some might be Test Drive Unlimited. I can't confirm this yet but I think that you can buy enough slots to fit at least the entire roster, plus any future downloadable cars.


The next-gen argument, however, I find it's useless to even attempt to define next-gen. Xbox 360 owners claim it's next-gen. PS3 owners claim the Xbox 360 isn't next-gen. Wii owners claim it's the only next-gen console so far. In those three claims alone, there's enough fanboy fuel to power a small solar system, and the concept of next-gen in my eyes is just that: fanboy ammunition.

[Razer]

Well Shuri, in a perfect world it'd be like you and I want. I would also like to be able to use my memory storage space as I please but we have to deal with the constraints put upon us. I hated when NFL @K came out and took an entire memory card. Madden 08 can't even fit on a single memory card if you create saves for all of the modes. I was simply saying that 3 save slots for a 1P game is acceptable, not ideal, but acceptable.

However for the record, I agree with you 100% except for the fanboy comment. I'm not a fanboy...I'm a FAN, boy!

Hey, that's gonna be my new siggie!